dry hooves

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Permalink Reply by Geoffrey Pannell on November 19, 2009 at 9:32pm

Well Janice I have never heard of putting fish oil on horses hoofs, it might be a bit easier to get some of the hundreds of preperations that are in any saddlery shop!!! One of the things we do here sometimes is let a trough overflow a bit so there is water around the trough , we stopped doing that though because water is a bit tight these days. If you put hoof oil on make sure you get the hoofs wet first, that way there is some moisture there in the first place . So, the simplest thing is to hose him off then apply the oil. Give it a bit of time to soften the hoofs , it wont work over night but it will work. Cheers Geoffrey

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Permalink Reply by Kinni P on November 19, 2009 at 10:06pm

If you're in the U.S., you can get Cod Liver Oil at the GNC. I've fed Cod Liver Oil before. It's got quite a lot of Vitamins A & E. I would put more confidence in the feeding of it than in the topical application of it, or any other oil.

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Permalink Reply by Fiona Hill on November 20, 2009 at 4:46am

Hi Janice
Like Geoffrey I have never heard of using fish oil on hooves but it sounds like a reasonable idea. Corn oil or sunflower oil would probably do the same job and I think you should be able to get it from any supermarket. You might check out some of the barefoot trimming websites for further advice on this as I was told that soaking the hooves is one of the most important things about keeping barefoot horses hooves healthy. My horse is barefoot and in the summer this is a problem (although right now I think he's growing flippers it's so wet here, so we have other problems!).

Anyway, what I do for mine is soak his feet with water - the recommendation is to stand them in it for as long as you can, but if you can get your horse to stand with his feet in a trough for more than a couple of minutes then my hat goes off to you!! - and then use 'aqueous cream' which is a water-based skin cream for humans (here in the UK you can buy tubs of it from the pharmacy - just don't tell them it's for a horse!). It soaks into the hoof and keeps it moisturised. Don't buy anything with lanolin in as that repells moisture and you want it to soak in. Putting anything oil based on is going to repell moisture, so stay clear of traditional hoof oils, And as Geoffrey says, put any oil on AFTER the hoof is wet and that way the water will be locked in. (Think of putting moisturiser or body cream on after a bath or shower!)

Alternatively if your horse won't stand in a trough, but will tolerate things on his hooves, another slightly whacky idea you might want to try is to soak a piece of sponge cut to the right size to fit the underneath of the hoof in water and hold it against the underneath of the hoof. Then get an old sock and put this on the hoof (as if you were dressing your horse in socks!) to hold the sponge in place. You could then either put duct tape around the hoof and the sock to hold it all on or put a hoof boot (poultice boot or similar) on over the top. I would only recommend doing this in the stable and it's a bit of a fiddle, but it is a way of getting water into the underneath of the hoof for a longer period of time than just hosing or washing!

Good luck with it.

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Permalink Reply by Jan Jollymour on November 20, 2009 at 10:15am

Hi, Janice:

This diagnosis sounds a little "fishy" to me. There are many ligaments and tendons running through the pastern joint and inserting under and around the navicular and pedal bones, and one ore more of those is much more likely to be the cause of your problem. I don't know what your horse is worth to you, but I'd be looking at a second opinion at the very least, and probably an MRI to sort out the real issue.

However, if you're convinced that your vet's opinion is the right one there is a product on the market which works better than most for moisturizing feet. It's called "Rainmaker", and it's easy to use (comes with its own application brush) and has been proven in double blind studies to actually moisturize hooves.

I have a large number of clients with horses living near yours, and they don't have this problem, so I'm really wondering about your horse. What do you feed him? Bear in mind that in dry summer/fall all the frogs get hard, but that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with them - in fact those dry hard feet are in super shape. I have to talk to my farrier today about something else, so I'll bounce your problem around with him as well...

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Permalink Reply by Michelle Synnot on November 20, 2009 at 1:39pm

Last summer for dry feet I started spraying them with PAM cooking oil spray upon suggestion from a friend. I had my doubts, but it actually worked well, and at three bucks a can, it doesn't break the bank! I would just hose the feet and then spray the oil on after. My farrier even commented on how my colt and gelding's feet were looking good considering the weather and what his other client's hooves were looking like.

What does your farrier say about it?

A good supplement couldn't hurt much either..

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Permalink Reply by Janice Denney on November 21, 2009 at 12:04am

Thank all of you for your suggestions.

I am in the process of having a equine lameness specialist look at the xrays.

I have 8 other horses of various ages ( 1 is 31) and they are all on the same grass pasture and have to wade into the same spring to drink and none of them are lame so I agree there has to more to it than the dryness. It has been awfully dry here and the soil is very hard and rocky but I should see some of the same problems in my other horses and I do not. We moved here a year ago and it is very much a drier climate.

This horse has had ongoing unsoundness that no one has ever been able to diagnose. He once spent two weeks at a vet clinic so they could work him and look at him daily and came up with nothing. I have spent a lot of time and money to get him sound only to have something go wrong and then he is lame again.

I wish I could donate him to a University somewhere as I cannot keep this up. Right now all I want is for him to be comfortable and he is hurting. I am currently soaking the feet (he stands in tubs no problem) and putting on three kinds of foot moisturizers different times of the day. Has anyone used a product called Wunder hoof? I see it on the internet but haven’t ordered it as am not sure. What about an Easy boot and filling it with a hoof paste?

I intend to get a different farrier to trim him a bit differently as per the xrays, after things soften up. You can see that his heels are too high and the foot is slightly cupped.

I also have bought a supplement and it is for horses that cannot metabolize sugars (EPSM) as I do believe you are what you eat so maybe that will help him although I know it will take a long time. I used this product with some success in prior years with this horse although he wasn't this sore ever.

I don't know what more I can do......

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Permalink Reply by Jan Jollymour on November 21, 2009 at 10:15am

Hi, Janice:

You could likely donate him to the University of Washington at Pullman. He sounds like he has a club foot, which has perhaps not been properly managed by your farrier(s) to date. As I said before, there are many ligament and tendon insertions in the hoof, and it is likely that he's having trouble with those, and not with the hoof capsule at all (it's more indicative of the deeper problems within the hoof, not the issue itself. Your point about your other horses and the fact that they are fine is a good one, and is part of the picture.

Feed can help, but good quality hay and a good vitamin/mineral supplement should take care of the problem - it is unlikely that other "hoof" supplements will do much more than cost you more money.

Try having the specialist send the x-rays to Pullman for their opinion - that won't cost you much, and might give you a LOT more insight into the issue(s) and how to manage them, if in fact they can be managed.

Good luck!

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Permalink Reply by Fiona Hill on November 23, 2009 at 5:52am

Oh dear. There is always far more to it than you first imagine isn't there? The old saying 'no foot, no horse' is so true. Now you start to explain more it sounds quite unlikely that it is just a dryness problem. Is your vet sure the problem is in the hoof? If the heels are too high and have been like this for a while then as Jan suggests it may well have caused problems with the ligaments and tendons, but not just in the hoof but higher up as well - I understand that sometimes so-called hoof problems are actually a problem in the shoulder or hips - and even if they don't originate there, it would make sense that the angle of the hoof may create problems higher up over time, manifesting as lameness.

I don't want to suggest specific things because it can be infuriating when you know you have tried all sorts of things already but ... if it were my horse, I think would be thinking holistically and trying to find a practitioner who could look at the whole horse, not just his feet. For this, you may need to move away from the traditional medical model of treatment and of course it depends on how open you are to such things - plus how much money you have!

As already said - good luck. It's horrible when your horse is suffering and you just want to help them.

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Permalink Reply by Janice Denney on November 23, 2009 at 2:48pm

Thank you all for your suggestions. I do know it isn't just dry hooves...can't be but had to start somewhere. I needed bute to make him comfortable and since I just moved here they will not give me any bute without looking at the horse. The vets around here are NOT horse specialists...middle of Oct had three mares preg tested. They were all pasture bred July 7 and earlier which makes the babies at least 70 days but the vet could not tell me if one mare was in foal or open even with his ultrasound, ...I know one was 90 days but it took him 15 minutes to palpate her pg.. the other was 120 days and he got that one ok......so I know they are not very experienced....so no the vet is not correct. I have ideas that he has nerve damage in several areas and like Jan J says I too believe he has damage from club foot and probably improper trimming plus he injured his hind and was supporting all his weight basically on three legs. Also some other issues I had with him being used too hard by a fellow when I sent him out for work on a ranch situation may have been caused by too tight saddle and his down hill conformaiton but he seemed to recover from that...so lots of issues and reasons but need to find THAT vet in this area that will care for him, find a solutions so he is comfortable...he can be a pasture pony until he dies...just do not want him to hurt and cannot afford all these guys who want to charge a fortune and still cannot tell me anything.

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Permalink Reply by spotlighteq on November 23, 2009 at 6:41pm

does he mean cod liver oil?

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Permalink Reply by Janice Denney on November 23, 2009 at 8:33pm

Probably cod liver oil would be suitable. I can get it at the drugstore but it is very expensive. I would rather give that in his feed. This vet is older and said he used to use it on his horses all the time but he cannot get it anymore. It must have been more of a feed additive and not human grade so less expensive.

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Permalink Reply by slc2 on December 13, 2009 at 6:58am

Many hoof oil products contain some sort of fish oil. It's a common byproduct of the food industry. I don't think any oil has any advantage over any other oil, because I think hoof dressings put on the exterior of the hoof wall, do nothing at all. I don't believe Pam would be any different.

I think you will get much better success from packing the horses feet with a product like Forschner's hoof packing. Spraying anything on the outside or even inside of the hoof does very little. That from my farrier and vet.

Diet also has a huge effect on the feet. As the old timers say, 'Better to grease his mouth with some good feed than to grease his feet'. Green grass, 'Dr. Green', can be a very good way to improve the feet, though warnings about over fattening a horse or overloading him with green feed, still are valid. Some supplements contain substances that are supposed to improve the quality of the horn in the hoof.

It isn't always dry arid heat that dries hooves out. Many times, it's standing in wet, actually. Standing on wet, urine or manure soaked bedding, standing in a paddock where the footing is mixed with manure and urine, or in a pasture on loafing areas where there is a lot of mud and manure and urine, can dry the feet out a great deal. in that case, the solution is to get the horse on to clean standings, where his feet can keep a more normal moisture balance. I know some people swear by having the horses stand in a muddy area around their trough, but I don't think that really helps at all.

I doubt that your horse is lame due to dry feet. In most horses, this would not cause lameness. It is possible, I suppose, but unlikely.

Vets quite often are in a bad spot. A customer often doesn't want to go in for expensive diagnostics, such as xrays and ultrasounds. He often wants to do something at home, and just try it and see if it gets better on its own. So what can the vet say, when a customer says he doesn't want to ship to a clinic, or get further work done? Well, a lot of times, he says, 'hoof oil' because that's all he can offer. He knows the horse needs an expensive workup, and that without it, the problem is unlikely to be diagnosed properly.

You're lucky. You've had xrays done, and that can help a good vet diagnose, but what he really needs, is to do a proper workup on the horse. He can look at the xrays you have, but chances are, he's going to want to take some additional, more specialized views, and he may want to do ultrasounds and nerve blocks. For that, he needs to have the horse in his clinic and do a proper job.

And it's expensive. It's hard to find good leg men, and it's hard to get an appointment - if they're any good, they are busy!!!

When a horse is lame, it's very important to use a vet to diagnose the problem, and it should be a vet that specializes in equine lameness. We have our 'shot vet', and our 'leg vet'. Most vets do not have much experience or interest in lameness. They're good for giving emergency treatment to obvious injuries, but they don't have the eye, training or experience to diagnose the more subtle, persistent or baffling lamenesses.

If a horse often goes lame, it can be because there is something persistent that is bothering him. This could be an arthritis in or around a joint, or a tendon or ligament that was injured some time ago and never healed properly, and bothers him whenever he gets worked harder or kicks up his heels and runs unusually hard in the pasture, say, or when he just takes a funny step. He could have low heels and a long toe, so that he repeatedly strains tendons. He could have navicular, which can be easy to see on xrays or can involve soft tissue injury and bruising.

It may be that his pasture or paddock has stones in it, and that he often bruises his feet. He might run more in pasture when he's out with certain horses, and get sore and strained because of that, too.

Some horses don't respond well to occasional rides. They just need more frequent, consistent conditioning.

Finding out what is wrong with a persistent lameness means the owner has to really seek out an exceptionally good 'leg man' (vet, male or female!) who has training and experience that most vets don't have. Don't listen to barn pals or 'shot vets'. Get someone good!

The owner will have to be prepared to spend some money to find out what's going on, and will probably have to make some changes in the program the horse is on - feed, shoeing, medication, perhaps a layup and then a rehab period...or in some cases, either easier work or retirement.

I'm blessed with one of the best 'leg men' around. Thank God! LOL.

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