I started this discussion on the Riding Instructor group and then I saw this discussion forum, so I'm posting it here, too. Here's the question...

If you had to choose 1 or 2 things that are the most important to you when you pick an instructor to ride with , what would they be? Knowledge, name, awards, certification, experience......?

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Thanks! I guess I was not thinking past American certifications. What a good wake up call for me. The Alberta system sounds very interesting. Are there other certifciation programs in Canada?

I wonder what other certification systems are in our world? I'm familiar with the BHS. Maybe someone else will contribute about ceritifcation from their country.

Thanks again
I look at the horses first. They can tell me alot. If MOST the horses are nervous I am not very interested.
I should have explained this better. The stable where I ride has quite a few retrained OTTB's, and these horses show all the fire, spirit and activity I expect from ex-racehorses. While these horses are somewhat fit snorty TB's, definitely not of the quietest dispositions, they are not in terror, expectation of terror, or over reactive to their normal stable environment.
Most of the stables I've seen or boarded at with TB's the last few decades also had active, spirited, even hyper TB's who were not flinging themselves around in terror. Calmness is relative. I do not expect a calm TB to act like the much calmer draft horse. I do not expect a completely fit TB to act like a pasture ornament TB. I do not expect an Arab to shuffle around like some calm QH's. I LIKE spirit in a horse, they are often more fun to ride. In fact I encourage the horses I ride (Arab & Arab-Welsh) to express their spirit "calmly", with their thinking processes on and listening to and responding correctly to my aids. Sure I get some exciting moments at first until they realize I don't punish forward impulse in and of itself. Currently I do not ride any "dead calm" horses, all can be a challenging to ride. Otherwise I'd be REALLY bored.
I would be turned off by a stable full of dull eyed, totally unreactive horses just as much as a stable where the horses show active terror or expectation of abuse.
By the horses' actions, movements, and interactions with people I can often judge correctly if the person running the stable/lesson program is competent (by my definition). I am not talking about horses being "friendly" with strangers, I am talking about horses acting sanely under their "normal" unexcited conditions with competent handlers.
Hi Jackie,
Me too...I want to see the horses treated like they're an important part of the program, not just the tool to make money. You can get a real sense of the instructor's personality and philosophy by how the horses act, react and appear

and ps. I kind of like those self propelled types,too
Sic2,
It sounds like you're more on the side of "dressage means training", than "success means blue ribbons"...isn't that where dressage in the US started to make the great divide a few years ago? Classic verses competition.... That could be a real topic.
I like that USDF came in fairly soon after it's birth with a certification program rather than trying to run one in years after the industry was developed (like the hunters).
Personally I hate gimmiks and tricks and wouldn't want to ride with someone who used them. Draw reins - gee you see them on western horses in curb bits, and even during jumping and I'm sure their used to gain hyperfexion at home as well.
It sounds to me that you like a trainer who uses the classic approach, is not afraid to take their time with a horse or rider and who is willing to bring out the best in everyone , even if the best doesn't result in greatness......I think we could use the same trainer!
Hi Sic2,
I haven't meant anyone so passionate in a very long time. Good for you. We've probably drifted well away from the topic of what we want in an instructor, but just the same I find your opinions on the current state of dressage interesting and enlightening. It's helpful to read how someone who travels in a different realm sees things. What you see and what I see are different yet related and are both parts of the truth.

If riders were stacked into a pyramid, with the base being beginners and then building up toward intermediates and so on until the top of the pyramid were those international riders that we admire and watch on TV, I'd have to say that I work with the base rather than the upper third. That's where most of us "live". I believe all of the parts are as important as each other.

I knew Lowell Boomer (founder of USDF) when his students were showing hunters in the Midwest and well before USDF became a reality. I'm not a dressage rider but will probably head towards dressage before long because I want to keep riding foreve,r and forever is closing in. I was certified in 1968 through one of the very few certification programs available in the US. I'm a teacher that has fed riders into all of the major venues of riding and have watched riders go far based on the basic foundation that started with me.

I admire everyone who takes what they have and uses it the whole way toward their goal. I enjoy reading your perspective because it opens my eyes, too.

I've found a few things that are common to all parts of the industry. 1 is if something causes a win this week, next week everyone will do it. Just like, you can tell when certain clinicians have been in town because for weeks, all the riders are using the same fix for every problem that comes up. This is the result of people (riders, trainers, instructors) who prefer to "copy" rather than understand, and people who need to win to eat. This hurts the horse world more than anything and it happens when a sport becomes an industry and the need to succeed takes over the love of the art- or the love of horsemanship. We've seen the biggest share of that happen in our time (yours and mine)

My goal is to instill the basics in riders so that they can ride for a lifetime, but when I go to lower level, even schooling shows and see how people ride, school and perform, I'm sickened. And because schooling shows normally go for the newer starting judges- more of the yuck gets by. All of this filters up as the generation in riding moves up.

Very few of the abominations are discipline specific. They're pretty generic in one form or another- I've seen trainers of stock horse breeds tie the horse's head in a tree the day before a show in order to get low head carriage. I've seen Arabian trainers who use bosals with springs under the jaw in order to make the horse carry it's neck in a convoluted shape - and Oh they did it without a bit.... and I've seen dressage trainers who have bloodied horses with whips, bits, and spurs.

Awhile back ('60s-70s) the treatment of the Tennessee Walkjing horse got so bad with soring (pouring acid in the front of the front fetlocks) that the TW became the first breed that had to have a government inspector at it's shows to stop the cruelty.

One of the things we need to do is to teach riders to think. We need to teach riders to think and question why they do what they do, consequently I am very against the George Morris method of "don't you dare question me". If riders learn to think and question, we'll be closer to developing more good top riders and fewer victim clones. A good instructor should be able to provoke your thought process.

Certification programs are good but in the US various groups have been trying to regulate industry segments in an industry that has been around for a very long time. USDF is the only venue whose certification began roughly a few years after the organization became stable. USEA has started its certification, but it's primarily based on competition. USHJA has started a new certification program essentially based on the methods of George Morris. ANRC bases it's certification on Littauer. CHA is based on safety. And Aria was another group Morris was involved in. The state of Mass requires instructors to pass the state's program. And there are many colleges who have their own degrees and certificates. Certification programs have been popping up all over America during the past few decades But with all of its lumps and bumps the USDF program has begun early on and could become a very strong program (if horse showing doesn't over shadow it). In my thought, it will be a long time before we see a strong certification system (not just a program) in the US because we have run rogue since the Cavalry dismounted in the early 40s. I'm not saying we don't need it. I'm certified, my daughter is certified through the British Horse Society, and I recommend certification to any students who want careers. I'm say it's going to be a long and hard process.

And I'm not against showing either. Showinfg is fun and teaches all sorts of good things. I think showing can be a real measure of your progress with your horse. In my backward old fashioned ideas, showing is a means, not the end, not the goal- but all to frequently it is the goal. That's when training and education verses gimmicks and short cuts, is a coin toss. A dressage judge can give a lower mark when they aren't happy with what they see. In the rest of most of the show world, judges will tell you that they often have to pin first "the best of the worst".

I'm also not against the use of training aids- in the correct hands. Training aids in the wrong hands is like the proverbial monkey and the razor. Once again - thinking and education would help to create the right hands.

So I guess I could boil a lot of this down to 2 words : integrity and thinking. If there was more integrity among teachers, trainers, judges and competitors there would be less dishonest horseman. If instructors would teach students to use their minds, to think to question, to find out; then fewer students would be over dependent on the professionals to make their choices for them.

Your comments are very thought provoking... makes me think! Thanks
I love it! You made my day, made me laugh, and I couldn't agree more! Thanks.
BTW- I'm pretty normal too...for a horse person!
Over the past 30 years, I have ridden with a lot of instructors, never having had a regular coach, and mostly learning in clinics. One of the worst instructors I've ever had is a level 3 event coach. She teaches nothing like she rides, her students all lean back, braced on the stirrups rocking their shoulders from side to side, the horses overbend and tank.
I have ridden with some truly great instructors, and some that just make you shake your head, as you realize you've done nothing more than excersize your horse for three days, and could well have done it at home without spending xxx number of dollars.
Not having learned my lesson well enough, I rode this spring with a coach that was well spoken of, but I had never seen ride or teach before, and she had me, on my hot, tough andy/tb cross, zooming him around in trot, thinking that is how to engage a horse and get him using his back. Everything I have learned thru the years went out the window, and later in the season when I rode with good instructors again, such as Dale Irwin, who I truly like and respect, and Marion Weiskopff who is worth every penny, reaffirmed CALM, before forward, and straight, got me and Zen back on track, and I learned that lesson in my level 1 coaching in 89 with Jody Sloper, who I trememdously like and respect, but sometimes we need to learn the same lesson over and over. I have ridden with Bonny Bonnello, super coach, super rider, Joni Lynn Peters, wish I could afford more, Theresa Washtock, holy cow, look out, you'll be riding 2 levels above your ability before the weekend is over--
So, give me an instructor who always reaffirms basics, who always builds correct seat, position, hands, who will tell you exactly what you need to to, and make sure you do it, I hate being lied to about where I'm at, praised for being a good rider, while allowed to make little mistakes. I want to be pushed, but never belittled. I don't mind a joke at my expense, I'm quite capable of laughing at myself also, and sometimes humor is just what is needed to get that relaxation to get that swing.
So now if I don't know a coach, I'll make a point of watching first, and decide if I'm going there or not. I'm experienced enough to know what I want to work on with whatever horse I'm schooling.
Hi Robin,
It's interesting to read about instruction and instructors from someone who has gone the clinic route. There's some real advantages to riding with lots of different (good) instructors and like you've pointed out, there are some definite risks. It seems like a person would have to be able to say "no" when the line was crossed on things that are not good for the horse and rider. And of course, if you do that, you've likely committed the big offense. Your last paragraph about watching first and making your own decision is really valuable for all of us. Thanks
Hi Barbara, I've been reading through your discussion, which I think is great. Having the right instructor or coach is so important, no matter what level you're at. I have been lucky because I've had the same coach since I started riding as a little kid, and although I've had various other instructors when I've lived in other places, she is always far, far above them in my mind. I think that what makes a coach special is sort of similar to what makes a good relationship between a horse and rider--that special "something" that's hard to define. But here's a try:

1) There has to be mutual goals and abilities. I do dressage, but I ride a 9-year-old QH that was started Western. I do not expect--and do not want--to make it far, competition-wise, and I do not expect my coach to take me there. We are all in it for the satisfaction of doing something well and having fun.

2) A certain amount of chemistry is required. Just like when you know a horse is the "one," so too do you know when a coach is good or bad for you. The issue that was discussed about being yelled at or not is a good example: some people see that as encouragement and others as criticism. Personally, I don't respond well to being yelled at, but if I'm doing something wrong I am told in no uncertain terms (in a respectful way) to rectify it immediately! I think it's underrated that actually LIKING your coach is paramount to a good relationship.

3) Trust. All my riding accidents have happened when I've been riding at other places than my usual stable. Because I implicitly trust my current coach, I naively thought that all coaches had my best interests in mind, so when I was told to do something I believed the instructor knew what she was talking about and did it without question (I was a fool). In a horrible example, I was put on a 4-year-old, basically green, filly during my first lesson at a new place in Ireland, and was told to canter when it was clear this filly didn't know what was going on (I should have listened to my gut and gotten off, but that's a different discussion). Anyway, I ended up almost breaking my back and having my confidence all but destroyed. It took my regular coach and me ages to get back to where I'd previously been, but because I trusted her--and her knowledge of her horses--I am fine now.

4) Ability to teach. This has been touched on too, and I think it happens time and again that people who are good riders decide to become coaches, when really they don't have the ability to teach. I think teaching is something we're born with, and some people are just not cut out for it. Another reason my coach is so great is because she is just a born teacher--extremely patient, able to explain concepts clearly and concisely, and has an uncanny ability to know when to push me and when to hold back. Progress is often slow but setbacks are minor because we only have to take a tiny step backwards when something happens.

5) Last, but perhaps should be first, is the love the coach has for horses. Putting the horse first will rarely steer you wrong. Working with horses' natural abilities and ways of movement, being able to read their moods, being able to sense what's bothering them--these are all necessary for a good riding coach. Because really, if we're not doing it out of love of horses and riding, then why bother?

Thanks! Emily
Hi Emily
It's interesting that we are such a diverse group all with the same general goal- good instruction. Some, like Robin, like multiple instructors, and others, like you, prefer one person they can trust for a really long time. It probably has as much to do with our learning styles as it does with teaching styles.

For my personal riding, relationship is important. Even if the instructor doesn't share my goals I want her/him to be able to understand them. I'm older and my aggressive (and competitive) years are for the most part over . For the first time in my life my body doesn't keep up with my mind. I'm not apt to get stuck with someone who will over face me but I'm more apt to over face myself, choosing the kind of horse I used to ride, rather than the kind I should ride now.

And I'm with you too in that I don't want to ride with someone who doesn't love the horses.
Thanks for your very excellant post.
Experience, awards and certifications are very important to me. I got tangled up with a hack when I first started dressage. It was a gut wrenching, confidence shaking experience no one should have to endure. Now I have a instructor I can trust. Not only does she have certificates and awards, she has an excellent reputation and even a few magazine articles. Moreover, her students have certifications, awards and magazine articles! The proof is in puddin'.
The second thing that's important to me is teaching style. I can't stand motor mouth instructors. Don't keep throwing silly metaphors at me as though I'll magically understand one. At that point, I'm too busy listening to what's being said to understand anything. Tell me once what I'm supposed to do then hold your tongue until you have something salient to add. My current trainer spends far more time watching me than talking to me. She tells me when she wants to see more or less of something particular then lets me learn. I've found I learn much, much faster this way.

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