Amateur Dressage

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Comment by Brenda Gordon on December 12, 2009 at 12:13pm

Hi again, I really liked your comment Laura, you mentioned the whole horse is part of the exercise and the most important part of your comment, at this stage of training. I learned more from my past two years in training with Ellin than any previous teacher. She keeps of keenly aware of the level of ability of our athlete, we are in training and eventually our muscles and those of our horse partner will develop so they can maintain the collection we want.
I watched a clinician - it was upsetting- she had the rider pull the horses head down(the worst) and told her to kick the horse to get it moving forward. This was a young TB recently off the track with no other experience but running. Too much, all wrong, poor horse.

Comment by slc2 on December 5, 2009 at 2:00pm

Saddles - my favorite saddle is a Verhan, I also like Spirig. Any saddle that fits well and has good padding and is in good shape.

Comment by Laura Coffey on December 5, 2009 at 1:56pm

I noticed the groups comments about getting horses "on-the-bit" and just wanted to share my experience with my young horse.
First I'd like to recommend the video, "On the Bit" by Sylvia Loch, for clarification of exactly what the term means. Actually I think the term "through" is a better description of what we are trying to achieve. In reality what happens with the head and neck of the horse plays a minor part in the phenomena of being on the bit.
When I began training my horse he was extremely resistant; head tossing, locking his jaw, and lots of other unpleasant behaviors. I found that his saddle was a poor fit, so I replaced it with a George Gullickson custom saddle. I also notices that he was stiff laterally so began including a lot of stretching exercises in the warm up. This made a huge difference, (remember your horse has to be bent (laterally)to be on-the-bit) if they are stiff and having trouble bending you're just going to get resistance. There are some great books out there on horse stretches. I'm not going to say my youngster is truely "on-the-bit" but he is certainly working long and low, and has moments of self-carriage, which is right where he should be for this stage of his training.

Comment by Ellin McGinley Daum on December 5, 2009 at 11:54am

Hello to all!
Brenda, you did a wonderful job explaining a complex procedure. The defining book on flexions is by Phillipe Karl: Twisted Truths of Modern Dressage. He has made a thorough study of Baucher and put it in terms and pictures for all to understand. It is a good read although somewhat difficult if you are not initiated into the lightness mind set. Have fun!!

Comment by Brenda Gordon on December 5, 2009 at 11:30am

I have a technique to share,
I learned from my instructor.
We have been riding with Ellin Daum, she was a student of Jean Claude Racinet. He was in Indianapolis about two years ago for a clinic and I watched him ride several horses with the master's touch. He was impressive, gentle and able to correct any issue the horse/rider had, with the simplest of corrections.

We get our horses relaxed with flexions before we mount. We get the horse on the bit by flexions from the saddle, I mean... supporting on the outside rein-so the contact is light but has real contact, then close your fingers on the rein on the inside and hold until the horse releases the jaw and at that moment you also release the inside rein-and outside so the horse is able to feel the bit drop and then will follow with his head and take contact again.

I have been working my mares like this for months, neither of them would relax with flexions at first, now we are communicating and both know what the flexion, on the inside rein means.

I rode a school horse who could understand the meaning by simple squeezes with my thumb on the rein, she would drop to seek the contact. We did wonderful diagonals with her contact on the bit on the longest rein-at the buckle.

I think it has been the most difficult concept for one of my horses to get, she carries her head high and tucks back to avoid the bit. She now will release the bit, drop her head to the level I pick by my release of the reins, usually she picks up her head again within a few steps, my instructor says to keep doing the same method until she holds the position until I request something different.

The technique is also in the book by Michael Schaefer, Right from the Start. Learning the flexions is great for the horse

I just invited my instructor to join Barnmice for everyone to enjoy.

Comment by slc2 on November 29, 2009 at 9:58pm

Thanks. It's a good exercise to think through a problem like that and then hear other's comments, good practice.

Comment by Meredith Kramer on November 29, 2009 at 3:47pm

Thanks slc2, that help with that, even though I am now using an Elevator, and he has been good, so I might actually go back to a double jointed snaffle. I also got a figure-8 noseband, and that has helped a lot! Thanks!

Comment by slc2 on November 29, 2009 at 8:13am

Stiffening up and won't go 'on the bit' except in a pelham, gets 'pissed' with the pelham (just the pelham?)....I think the best thing to do is get help from a dressage instructor who can show you the way.

Ideally, we only use a pelham for 'control situations', such as jumping a course. It isn't allowed in dressage shows, and it tends to put a 'pelham neck' on a horse. While some trainers insist they are fine for dressage, most do not, with good reason. Often a better alternative is to use a different snaffle bit or a caveson, correctly adjusted, if the horse is getting 'bully' in the snaffle you have.

Some of that is technique. A rider has to be able to balance on his seat to use his reins 'independently', so he can bend on one rein and give with the other, and not lean himself forward or back as he's doing it. To use his reins he has to be 'anchored' in the saddle by a secure position. Correcting the position often makes the rider more effective, and the horse more responsive - not in and of itself, but because it allows the rider to give more effective corrections - he doesn't just sit perfectly like a little statue and magically get results without doing anything...the position makes what he does more effective.

When people say 'pissed' they usually mean the horse is tossing his head, fussing at the bit so his head is bouncing around like a ball (LOL), refusing to go forward when urged with the leg, or pinning his ears back.

This can be for several reasons. Of course it could mean your hands are too firm or unsteady (such as bouncing up and down at the trot or canter, which is common), which makes more nervous horses tense, but which many calmer horses ignore.

But it can also mean your horse simply doesn't want to 'give' when you ask him to. Why? Well the other rein may be too tight and short to allow him to bend his neck, or he may never have been taught to bend.

And...Horses often learn not to 'give', especially if the rider is very tentative or not consistent. We all know that a dog that is punished for barking once a week won't stop barking! And horses need to be ridden consistently, with the same aids and the same rewards and punishments.

'Round and on the bit' for most people is a matter of finding a way to work the reins back and forth either gently or more firmly, so the horse finally gives up poking his nose forward and puts it more down. But unfortunately, it isn't quite really dressage. Many folks seem to go between two extremes - either not wanting to touch the horse's head and neck position and letting him go with the neck as long and low as possible, like a show hunter or western pleasure horse, or trying earnestly to get him to 'assume the position' by working first one rein and then the other in quick succession. Neither way works out really well for dressage.

A horse can be 'stiff' in the neck and not want to bend his neck and that might be a problem. It might be because the other rein is being held too short, so he can't bend his neck, or that the whole of his weight of his body is already leaned in that direction and he can't bend, because he's off balance.

Comment by Queenrider on September 16, 2009 at 3:52pm

More information is needed to direct your enquiry regarding getting a stiff horse on the bit. Stiff horses are often ridden by stiff riders! Most riders starting their dressage journey do not recognize the beggining stages of of "on the bit" so the horse gets no reward for trying so the horse gives up. Then ususally the rider gets very frustrated. Then the gadgets start being used and things spiral downhill from there.

Comment by Meredith Kramer on September 16, 2009 at 2:35pm

Does any one have any good tips on how to get a very stiff horse round and on the bit? I can only seem to do this with a pelham... and my poor horse gets really mad!

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