Barnmice Equestrian Social Community2024-03-28T16:04:00ZSarah Silerhttp://www.barnmice.com/profile/SarahSilerhttp://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2187976501?profile=RESIZE_48X48&width=48&height=48&crop=1%3A1http://www.barnmice.com/group/bodylanguage/forum/topic/listForContributor?user=3t441lzaxkgh4&feed=yes&xn_auth=no"Threatening" body language?tag:www.barnmice.com,2012-01-29:1773158:Topic:5739802012-01-29T01:50:46.438ZSarah Silerhttp://www.barnmice.com/profile/SarahSiler
<p>Yesterday when I was at the barn, one of the horses made me feel uncomfortable. I'll give a bit of background...</p>
<p>She (Jill) is a Standardbred broodmare, supposedly pregnant (although she is due this spring, she doesn't look pregnant at all to me...but I've never been with a horse for her entire gestation period until now). </p>
<p>She is the alpha in the little herd of four. </p>
<p>Jill had questionable treatment prior to arriving at "my" barn (it's where I board my mare). She was…</p>
<p>Yesterday when I was at the barn, one of the horses made me feel uncomfortable. I'll give a bit of background...</p>
<p>She (Jill) is a Standardbred broodmare, supposedly pregnant (although she is due this spring, she doesn't look pregnant at all to me...but I've never been with a horse for her entire gestation period until now). </p>
<p>She is the alpha in the little herd of four. </p>
<p>Jill had questionable treatment prior to arriving at "my" barn (it's where I board my mare). She was passed from barn to barn by the breeder, because people didn't trust her, due to her "meanness". My barn owner is a wonderful, calm, retired gentleman who has years of horse experience. Since being at his barn, Jill has transformed for the better, but she still doesn't trust humans, and she still has some fears (she will, for example, not walk calmly through her stall door opening, but will race across, either going in or out).</p>
<p>When we first arrived at our barn, Jill had a filly at her side. I didn't know anything about Jill then, so of course I had no 'fear' of her. She was fine with me touching her filly, and I was able to pet her too, but she was very wary. However, whenever she was in heat she was VERY friendly, and would present herself to anyone who touched her.</p>
<p>The only warning I got about Jill was to avoid being caught between her and another horse, because she will kick out at other horses.</p>
<p>I have been very gentle with any interactions with Jill, and after a year she is slowly accepting me. There are days when I can rub her forehead or stroke her neck, yet other days she won't let me get too close. Last fall I inadvertently found myself between her and another horse, and sure enough she turned to kick. I was near her hip when that happened, and got bumped by it...but she noticed me there and didn't kick out at the other horse!</p>
<p>I have been approaching her and giving her a treat every once in a while, for months - which she takes gently, but is hesitant and stretches her neck to reach it. Most times, when I go to see my mare, Jill and the other horses don't pay any attention to me. That wasn't the case up until the summer, so I don't know what changed...but I like it :o)</p>
<p>In the last few weeks, when I go see my mare, Jill will sometimes come trotting over to me as well. It's like she wants attention, but is afraid to get too close.</p>
<p>As far as "normal" body language goes with the other horses, Jill does a lot of ear pinning, teeth baring, and biting - driving the others away. As I mentioned, she will also turn and kick at them. As well, she does a lot of head swinging and neck twisting. And snort! It's like the only sound she makes! There is always a long snorting sound coming from her, whether she is happy or mad.</p>
<p>Yesterday, when my mare started to come to me, Jill trotted past her and came right to me. I offered her a dried apple ring and she gently took it. By this time, my mare had come up to me and was quietly standing behind me, waiting for her treat. I wiggled my dressage whip to ask Jill to back up, because with my mare behind me, I didn't want Jill too close. She stood her ground and wasn't eager to move off. Raising my hands and "pushing" her space didn't move her either, so I lightly tapped her chest with the whip and she moved off, but not far.</p>
<p>I kept moving with Jill, driving her gently while swaying the whip, because if I turned my back she would be right back behind me. The whole time I was driving Jil, my mare was following behind me like a shadow :o)</p>
<p>If Jill moved off a nice distance away from me, she'd turn around and start swinging her head as she tried to make her way back to me. Then she began rearing! She'd swing her head and lift her front feet a bit off the ground, and then she was lifting them higher and higher! When she did this, she was standing perpendicular to me. I didn't know if she was being playful (which you rarely see), or if she was being threatening.</p>
<p>By then the big Friesian gelding came on the scene and was practically on me. Jill turned toward him and he quickly left. My mare, expecting our normal routine of me taking her out into the hayfield, had walked over to the gate and was mouthing the chain that holds the gate closed, waiting for me to come and let her out. </p>
<p>I had been calm through all of this, but was starting to feel like I should be getting out of there. I headed to the fence, making sure that Jill was always in front of me, because I didn't want any surprises behind me. Once I crawled through the fence, Jill and the gelding left. My mare remained at the gate, hopeful :o)</p>
<p>After reading Imke Spilker's book, I wondered if Jill was just expressing herself in her own way, and didn't mean any harm. Is there anything I could/should do when she does that? I'd love for her to trust me enough to play with me, but I also don't want to put myself in danger. I am hoping to be able to create a small work space within the pasture, where I can allow a horse to enter in if they want to, but only one at a time, so I don't have to worry about two of them competing for attention. I wonder if Jill would come in there with me on her own.</p>
<p>Any ideas about her behaviour?</p>
<p></p> You can now download all of Ellen Ofstad movies :)tag:www.barnmice.com,2011-08-25:1773158:Topic:4924832011-08-25T06:20:24.215ZSarah Silerhttp://www.barnmice.com/profile/SarahSiler
<p>Not directly bodylanguage, but since it is Ellen`s group I`ll put out the link anyway ;)</p>
<p> </p>
<p>It is now possible to watch and/or download all of Ellen`s movies, at a cheap price!</p>
<p> </p>
<p><a href="http://www.ellenofstad.com/onlineENGvanlig/">http://www.ellenofstad.com/onlineENGvanlig/</a></p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Not directly bodylanguage, but since it is Ellen`s group I`ll put out the link anyway ;)</p>
<p> </p>
<p>It is now possible to watch and/or download all of Ellen`s movies, at a cheap price!</p>
<p> </p>
<p><a href="http://www.ellenofstad.com/onlineENGvanlig/">http://www.ellenofstad.com/onlineENGvanlig/</a></p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p> Bitten!tag:www.barnmice.com,2011-03-08:1773158:Topic:3539082011-03-08T15:46:54.943ZSarah Silerhttp://www.barnmice.com/profile/SarahSiler
<p>Not so much to do with body language per-se.. But I've come to value ya'll's opinion and wanted to know your thoughts on this:</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I was giving Kai scratches the other day on both sides of her neck. She usually loves it, but has been showing more attitude lately. Seems like she's tried to push me around.</p>
<p>Anyways, as I was scratching her, she just reached over quickly and bit my arm! It didn't hurt, but it may have been because I was so surprised--She has never nipped at me…</p>
<p>Not so much to do with body language per-se.. But I've come to value ya'll's opinion and wanted to know your thoughts on this:</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I was giving Kai scratches the other day on both sides of her neck. She usually loves it, but has been showing more attitude lately. Seems like she's tried to push me around.</p>
<p>Anyways, as I was scratching her, she just reached over quickly and bit my arm! It didn't hurt, but it may have been because I was so surprised--She has never nipped at me before.</p>
<p>I had been calmly looking for any signals that she may had been uncomfortable, upset, enjoying herself, etc. but she kept a pretty neutral demeanor (I must have missed something?).</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Once she bit, I didn't panick, it didn't scare me, but it did surprise me. I didn't jerk back, scream, nothing. I said "NO" very firmly and stepped aggressively toward her, but only did that for a second or two. She was surprised that I reacted like that and swiveled her body around very quickly (fled), but immediately came back very close to me, put her head down a little lower than waste-level, and seemed to have a "I'm sorry I was nasty.." attitude after that. As soon as she fled, I started acting like nothing ever happened.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>She seems to be less snyde to us both now, so I'm wondering if it might've started registering that things like that won't be tolerated?? She still has a bit of an attitude of "I don't have to if I don't want to"..</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Did I handle that properly, and what can I do to soften up her thoughts and whatnot toward us?</p> Interesting book on body languagetag:www.barnmice.com,2011-01-22:1773158:Topic:3374122011-01-22T03:15:15.754ZSarah Silerhttp://www.barnmice.com/profile/SarahSiler
<p><span class="font-size-3" style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">I just finished reading "Empowered Horses" by Imke Spilker, and I found it to be very inspirational. The book is kind of written by her horses, from their point of view. It is easy to read and stirred up feelings I had as a small child, when I'd daydream about the type of relationship I'd like to have with a horse. That dream is still alive, because I know that that kind of relationship does…</span></p>
<p><span class="font-size-3" style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">I just finished reading "Empowered Horses" by Imke Spilker, and I found it to be very inspirational. The book is kind of written by her horses, from their point of view. It is easy to read and stirred up feelings I had as a small child, when I'd daydream about the type of relationship I'd like to have with a horse. That dream is still alive, because I know that that kind of relationship does exist.</span></p>
<p> </p>
<p><span class="font-size-3" style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Imke tells a number of stories about the horses in her book, and how some of them were completely volatile and unmanageable, and yet here they are, playing with their owners and proudly collecting naturally. Some of those horses have been worked with for years before they came to this point. </span></p>
<p> </p>
<p><span class="font-size-3" style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">The only question I had was how did they handle basic things like hoof trims when the horses were so mean that you couldn't restrain them in any way for years?</span></p> Update on the un-touchable!tag:www.barnmice.com,2010-12-20:1773158:Topic:3135532010-12-20T18:44:10.337ZSarah Silerhttp://www.barnmice.com/profile/SarahSiler
<p>Just a quick update for those of ya'll I've spoken to about my girl who wouldn't let anyone touch her--</p>
<p>For quick reference, Donoma is my red girl who was afraid of <em>everyone.</em></p>
<p>Kai is my brown girl who loves people.. But also loves to rear when she gets nervous.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I realized my girls were TERRIFIED of ropes 3 weeks back, so we've been helping the girls understand that ropes aren't scary..</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Donoma will walk fearlessly up to me now, and…</p>
<p>Just a quick update for those of ya'll I've spoken to about my girl who wouldn't let anyone touch her--</p>
<p>For quick reference, Donoma is my red girl who was afraid of <em>everyone.</em></p>
<p>Kai is my brown girl who loves people.. But also loves to rear when she gets nervous.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I realized my girls were TERRIFIED of ropes 3 weeks back, so we've been helping the girls understand that ropes aren't scary..</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Donoma will walk fearlessly up to me now, and voluntarily put her head through the loop on the rope while I hold it up! She doesn't care if I drop it, she's almost 100% OK with me throwing it over her back.. AMAZING--Just amazing! I used a lot of tips and tricks that ya'll suggested.. THANK YOU SO MUCH for helping us get here<3</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Donoma will walk up to me and place her head on me.. Sometimes she just stands there & it seems like she's being affectionate (is that what it is?) and sometimes she will nudge me a little.</p>
<p>As cute as it is, I'm trying to ask her not to do that. Why? Because it seems like now that she's got some confidence, she wants to see what she can get away with! She hasn't tried to bite me in a while, but she likes to "test" my clothes out and nip them a little. Hmmm. Maybe they're tasty? ;) She will try to get what she wants without acknowledging my requests, but is pretty compliant when she realizes that I appreciate her cooperation.. She's a great girl:)</p>
<p> </p>
<p>..Only one problem.. She likes to try to kick my husband! Pretty sure she's just got trust issues with men, and though he feeds them most days, he doesn't work with them like I do. It's OK. They'll get there:)</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Kai has taken to rearing when she gets freaked out.. NOT good, but she's thoughtful about the direction she rears in, at least.. She'll turn away from me and do it, but I still don't want her doing that (obviously).</p>
<p>She was more afraid of the ropes than Donoma and she's coming around more slowly than D is. Yesterday, she let me put the rope around her neck FIRST TRY, twice in a row, and even let me lead her a little with it! She seemed afraid at first, but she trusted me, so it was really kind of moving:)</p>
<p> </p>
<p>All that to say, progress is REALLY being made! I'm sure it's slower than most people would tolerate, but A) I'm new to horses B) I'd rather my girls trust me than feel like they HAVE to obey me--I'd much rather them desire to work with me, you know?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Any ideas, suggestions on anything you've read??</p>
<p> </p>
<p>OH, and Jennifer! You might think this is interesting--Some others may be interested, too:)</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Remember our comments about physical attributes on horses and learning how to "read" parts of their personalities from them??</p>
<p>When Donoma finally came around to be friends with me, her eyes went from wide-opened with LOTS of white showing, to a calm, loving almond shape.. That is supposed to mean that she's VERY dependable and kind, but can be shy and takes some time to trust people.</p>
<p>GO FIGURE, huh?! How accurate!</p>
<p> </p>
<p>She also has a "quirk bump" under/in between her eyes, which means she will have a tendency to test each new handler.. Seems like she's staying true to that, too:)</p>
<p> </p>
<p>She also has broad ears, wide-set at the base.. Means she's really smart, really cooperative and dependable (when she gets to trust you)..</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Kai has big, soft, round eyes.. A great big love bug, sweet as sugar:) Closer-set ears so not quite as smart as Donoma (seems to be true, but that's OK!) Straight profile, so she's pretty easy-going and uncomplicated..</p>
<p> </p>
<p>They both have swirls in the middle of their foreheads, so that should signify that they're pretty well-balanced in the temperament area.</p>
<p>Looks like they both have elongated swirls, which should mean that they LOVE human interaction and companionship. Seems oh-so-true for my girls:) That's pretty common for Rockys though.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I got some great pictures, too.. I can't wait to post them.. I love my girls:)</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Thank ya'll so much for your input and care..</p>
<p>We got our camper moved and are almost done setting it up, so maybe I can get a freaking video once that's done! SHEESH!! haha!!</p> Horses and Kids..... add stories here and photos...tag:www.barnmice.com,2010-11-30:1773158:Topic:3087562010-11-30T17:54:48.159ZSarah Silerhttp://www.barnmice.com/profile/SarahSiler
<p>This past weekend I had some family over and one of the special people that came to visit was my neice Mackenna. She is 8 now. Some kids in a family just really do stick to the horsey thing. Not all of them but some of neices/nephews are really into it... Toby is my horse that I let the kids around and if he says it is okay I let them up on him.....</p>
<p> </p>
<p>what we did this weekend was open the gate to the arena and I explained to her that if he came out to her to come in the…</p>
<p>This past weekend I had some family over and one of the special people that came to visit was my neice Mackenna. She is 8 now. Some kids in a family just really do stick to the horsey thing. Not all of them but some of neices/nephews are really into it... Toby is my horse that I let the kids around and if he says it is okay I let them up on him.....</p>
<p> </p>
<p>what we did this weekend was open the gate to the arena and I explained to her that if he came out to her to come in the house and get me from cooking and we would do the next thing.... for quite a while he stayed outside and observed... she sat on the platform and waited..... I explained to her how to not look at him right in the face and to go ahead and bend her body to beckon him in...</p>
<p> </p>
<p>45 minutes later that patient child came into the house and said, Aunt Jennifer he is here..... and there he was at the front gate..... I showed Mackenna signs that we would look for to be sure that Toby was accepting of her before we got too close and made him go away.. in other words, joining up a little... I don't believe that strangers should jump on horses and just go but that is just me maybe and my naitivety that the horse should have a choice... Toby stayed with us...... after that we walked with him so she could see if he would follow us...... he did..... then we got a brush and I put some hay in a bucket and I let her brush him while she stood on the stool....... then I took him away from his snack and he complied with my request and walked with us some more and he started breathing heavy out his nose and licking and chewing and lowering his head and shaking it a little and you could just see him start to relax... then Mackenna did some breathing...... and she said she wasn't scared, Toby wasn't scared.... we got some good pics.... I made her wait almost 3 hours to get up on him... he's not had a rider in awhile and he's an elder horse so I always wait for his calming signals and let him let me know that he's okay and when he's okay I let the kids on..... he is very sweet to them if I am with him and Mackenna was more than willing to wait and be patient and listen to what I was showing her about what a horse might be saying and about language. her banter was very cute and she really had some ideas on the subject. ... my nephews are a bit bigger energy... Mackennas brother just wanted to crack a whip around the horses so I made him go out in the driveway and smack his whip around.... ha!! but Mackenna and Toby strengthened their bond and she is really sticking with the horsey thing... she said that horses are her favorite animals....</p> Join up... is it really a good way of training horses?tag:www.barnmice.com,2010-11-16:1773158:Topic:3024322010-11-16T13:41:23.911ZSarah Silerhttp://www.barnmice.com/profile/SarahSiler
I just read the first reply to the thread:<br></br><a href="http://www.barnmice.com/forum/topics/have-you-ever-had-or-dealt">http://www.barnmice.com/forum/topics/have-you-ever-had-or-dealt</a><br></br><br></br>and it said ....<span style="font-style: italic;">"If you don't know what join-up is... It is basically taking your horse
into a round pen and chasing them away from you with a rope... Make sure<br />
they are always at a run and change directions every 10 minutes or<br />
so.... You will know your horse is…</span>
I just read the first reply to the thread:<br/><a href="http://www.barnmice.com/forum/topics/have-you-ever-had-or-dealt">http://www.barnmice.com/forum/topics/have-you-ever-had-or-dealt</a><br/><br/>and it said ....<span style="font-style: italic;">"If you don't know what join-up is... It is basically taking your horse
into a round pen and chasing them away from you with a rope... Make sure<br />
they are always at a run and change directions every 10 minutes or<br />
so.... You will know your horse is ready to listen when they show on of<br />
three signs of submission.... 1. Suddenly stopping and facing you 2.<br />
Chewing 3. One ear is always pointed toward you... When your horse shows<br />
you one of these signs, turn your back to them... They should walk-up<br />
to you and either nudge you on the back or put there head over your<br />
shoulder... At this point you need to give them a treat and a little<br />
rest... Then walk away... They should follow...If they don't you need to<br />
run them some more...</span><br style="font-style: italic;"/><span style="font-style: italic;">It is important to have lots of time to do this, you should not be
rushing it... If it has been a long time and your horses is exhausted<br />
and sweat, but still hasn't given in .... Give them a rest and try again<br />
later in the day or the next day...</span><br style="font-style: italic;"/><span style="font-style: italic;">Also, if you don't have a round pen available to you... you can use a
riding arena... You just need to take some boards or sheets of wood and<br />
block off the corners, so that your horse cannot corner himself and make<br />
it hard for you to chase him/her...</span><br style="font-style: italic;"/><span style="font-style: italic;">Hope this helps!!! If you need more information you can just google it or watch a video of it on youtube....</span><br style="font-style: italic;"/><br style="font-style: italic;"/><span style="font-style: italic;">****** One important thing to know!!! YOU SHOULD NEVER HIT YOUR HORSE
DURING THIS EXERCISE!! IT IS A NONE VIOLENT METHOD OF TRAINING, AND YOU<br />
WILL LOSE YOUR HORSES RESPECT IF YOU HIT THEM!!"<br/><br/>I <span style="font-style: italic;">am <span style="font-style: italic;">not trying to be mean to the person that wrote this, I am just using her description for what join-up is, simply because I think that this is the way most people do it.</span><br style="font-style: italic;"/><br style="font-style: italic;"/><span style="font-style: italic; font-weight: bold;">My question to you all is; do you think this is a good thing to do with horses? If so, why? if not, why?</span><br style="font-style: italic;"/><br/></span></span> The classroom expandstag:www.barnmice.com,2010-10-17:1773158:Topic:2870142010-10-17T16:26:16.375ZSarah Silerhttp://www.barnmice.com/profile/SarahSiler
<p>Happy drizzly Sunday you guys... it's a little wet here which I love.. the dust is down, and it's fun to play with my horses in the moist, not muddy dirt.... and the cool moist air..... yesterday I separated my horses and ran side by side with them from one place to another and clicked and treated for exercise and my legs are sore today I had so much fun.... Toby was really getting into it and ducking his head and spinning and seemingly having fun with me.... Oliver is not nearly so…</p>
<p>Happy drizzly Sunday you guys... it's a little wet here which I love.. the dust is down, and it's fun to play with my horses in the moist, not muddy dirt.... and the cool moist air..... yesterday I separated my horses and ran side by side with them from one place to another and clicked and treated for exercise and my legs are sore today I had so much fun.... Toby was really getting into it and ducking his head and spinning and seemingly having fun with me.... Oliver is not nearly so animated...</p>
<p> </p>
<p>but the point of my post is this.... due to the times and the fact that my hubby rented out an apartment we have to a lady with two horses who is away this weekend, second weekend in a row, and my trainer rescuing a mare whose daddy has ms and isn't feeling up to par, I have 5 horses to feed...... not all the time, just for these two days..... I have had many occassions to think of Ellen and so glad she doesn't have a video of me, LOL as I try and learn the different responses to each one of these horses, especially around food....... and trying to make sure I am not causing a problem.... like my trainers horse Belle, I thought she was a bit forward and I was practicing pushing her around just to actually ask her to keep her distance and it was interesting what I learned from her... I think she is more nervous than me but our first few encounters I hope I didn't make her more nervous because I am a spaz...</p>
<p> </p>
<p>in any event, I thought, why not..... Oliver can use the training, I can use the training.... there are 5 horses here now, including him and all of them will be working with Steve so how great that he can have a classroom, some friends, some not so friends, whichever it is, it is... learn how to be in close quarters with other horses. He and I have been practicing staying together, our connection, at liberty so I can draw him away from the other horses and see if I can keep his attention..... the universe brought me 3 more horses to learn from... :) and I don't have to feed them or take care of them all the time..... yay!!</p>
<p> </p>
<p>do you find yourselves asking yourself, what would Ellen do? or is it just me.... I think horses are confusing till you spend time with them, jmho. I am nervous of my communications with them and not too sure all the time of myself....</p> Body language study from videos: horse 3tag:www.barnmice.com,2010-10-14:1773158:Topic:2863562010-10-14T08:39:55.680ZSarah Silerhttp://www.barnmice.com/profile/SarahSiler
Still the same clinic and setup as the topic bodylanguage and what the signals mean.<br/>
<br/>
Here is another horse that is also new to me.<br/>
He is a five year old gelding, with very little experience in being at an event. I think it is his first time in an arena. The owner told me she is a bit afraid of him.
Still the same clinic and setup as the topic bodylanguage and what the signals mean.<br/>
<br/>
Here is another horse that is also new to me.<br/>
He is a five year old gelding, with very little experience in being at an event. I think it is his first time in an arena. The owner told me she is a bit afraid of him. Body language study from videos: horse 2tag:www.barnmice.com,2010-10-14:1773158:Topic:2863382010-10-14T08:26:22.918ZSarah Silerhttp://www.barnmice.com/profile/SarahSiler
This is a follow up on the thread abour what our signals means to the horse. There was so many clips of the last horse that I thought it would be best to split it up a bit in case there were many comments about what happened in the videos.<br/>
<br/>
Again, i would like to focus on the horses signals and their responses to the human signals...<br/>
<br/>
I will post the clips of this horse in seperate postings to make it easy to comment on them individually
This is a follow up on the thread abour what our signals means to the horse. There was so many clips of the last horse that I thought it would be best to split it up a bit in case there were many comments about what happened in the videos.<br/>
<br/>
Again, i would like to focus on the horses signals and their responses to the human signals...<br/>
<br/>
I will post the clips of this horse in seperate postings to make it easy to comment on them individually