Horses and Leadership

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Comment by cmos on November 22, 2009 at 2:36am

the key thing here is I gave this horse room to retreat and I was demanding respect, We still have a long ways to go but this is a big break through. I think this is a great page I'm on and thank you all for the your stories and the link horsetrainingresources.com as I could use some help to make progress easier. at one point he saw that I was breathing hard and thought he was winning ( my stemina is'nt like it use to be lol)

Comment by cmos on November 22, 2009 at 2:21am

Good evening everyone. I have had a good week with our stallion.yes we do have breeding plans for him so gelding him is not an option at this time although I suppose it would make life easier. I just do'nt like to break a spirit if I can work with it to bring it back to a gentle nature. I decided it was time to take the next step in establishing who's boss in the barn yard. I was waiting for the right time and it was time for me to push him and I did just that. I pushed this guy off the fence and across the correll. why? because he was struting up and down the fence darting his head over the top rail ears bck.snortin' and carryin' on at the mares and geldings I had tied out at the hitching rail so he could be out for a few hrs. for exercise. I took my launging whip and struted up and down the fence shaking my fist,popping the whip,shaking my head no and repeating over and over "No get away". With each pass I moved away from the fence and when he got around me and back to the fence I started all over again untill I had pushed him all the way across the correll to stand behind the farthst feeder munching hay,(not even showing any part of his body except his head)watching me struting back and forth. Oh he was mad damn mad as I was taking over his tarritory and he let me know by snoring,shaking his head at me(runnin' around me to get bck to the fence)and half rearing/bucking as he turned away. I pushed him off every smelly mound he tried to cover and would'nt let him mark his scent. I demanded respect and got it.Then he tried to make friends and I would'nt let him do that either (this seemed to bother him more cause he sulked all day) It took awhile but I won I had to. Everytime I started bck to the fence he'd be right behind me so I kept stoppin' and half turning to glareing at him over my shoulder.He finaly stayed untill I was through the gate and half way to the house before he came up to hang his head over the gate and watch me. When I came bck to check on him he was being very nice no more attitude showing and when I glared at him over the fence he turned away,when I went through the gate he moved away. only then did I alow him to come up to me to be friends. I do'nt recommend this style to anyone....it worked for me cause I know the horse. working with a stallion is a very touchy and dangrous perceedure. You should always be on gaurd even if you're working with an older quiter stallion that has been handled alot.

Comment by Jennifer Lamm on November 17, 2009 at 11:52am

Dear Laura. Thank you for that..... I am working with my mustang, Oliver. He is 4 and we have been together for 4 years, but he is a challenge to say the least..... I revel in my small wins that I get with him, in that I see that he is understanding what I am asking..... he seems happy when he gets it.... and not so frustrated. I learned body language from Chris Irwin, thankfully because Oliver and I were crashing before. I also had to learn to be the leader meant to have myself under control.... so I have to go slow with that too. As soon as I feel like I might not be able to be the leader anymore, my heart is racing, or I'm getting nervous, I have to quit. I've gone beyond my level of comfort. (I am really just learning for sure).... and I am so consistent.... I felt that was going to be my only weapon, time and consistency in the face of lack of knowledge and experience and bravery..... every day we accomplish a tiny thing that is better than yesterday... but Oliver is letting me lead. If things start to get out of hand, we must stop... I'd rather teach us both things in small intervals than have the big blow up. I do not like fighting with my horse...

Your method of teaching must be awesome.... I was on a board once where I stated that I thought I was giving the wrong signals... and I gave my horse the benefit of the doubt, that I even apologized to him on occasion when I knew I asked him for the wrong thing.. and I got tarred and feathered for it.... my body language is so much better, you wouldn't believe how much he will do for me that we could never do before... it is ALL about the person...... helping the horse to understand. :)

Comment by Fiona Hill on November 17, 2009 at 11:05am

Couldn't have put it better myself Laura!

Comment by Laura Hunter on November 17, 2009 at 10:45am

For the past several years I have taught many leadership workshops to both horse people and corporate groups. It seems to me from observing people struggle that the biggest issue we humans have is the disconnect between our intent and our body language. We rely so much on verbal communication that we are out of touch with what our bodies are actually communicating. Horses, on the other hand, cannot separate how they feel from how they act so they are masters at reading body language. They can sense the slightest indecision or hesitation in us. We are not aware of it but they are and they respond to it in a way that is completely logical to them. If your human is showing hesitation about being a leader then you have to take over - after all someone in the herd has to be the leader.

The good news is that anyone can improve their non-verbal communications skills. Non-verbal communication is a skill like any other that can be improved upon with much practice. It is simply a matter of developing self-awareness. When my students are not getting the response they want from the horse I tell them to stop and check in with their own bodies - they are usually surprised to discover what messages they were really sending.

Leadership is also about consistency. It's not about the big training sessions in the arena as much as it is about the hundreds of small moments with your horse in your day to day interactions together. I am always amazed to watch people work really well with their horses in the arena only to walk out the door and let it all go on the way to the paddock. It's about how your horse goes through a gate with you, how they come up to you in the field, how they stand for getting tacked up or having their feet done etc. I don't want to get into a big confrontation with my horses and I don't have to if I consistently ask for respect in small ways in all situations and interactions.

Comment by Jackie Cochran on November 15, 2009 at 9:09pm

Dear cmos, unless you have breeding plans for your stallion, I would recommend gelding as soon as the weather permits. He is in the protective stallion mode (after all he had to face the predator himself.) Removing the stallion part may make your life easier. Of course he is your horse and there are plenty of other alternatives if he is of breeding quality and previously showing a cooperative disposition.
Good for you for being determined to be your stud colts leader. This can be challenging at the best of times, much less then there IS a predator involved!
May your path be smooth. Jackie

Comment by cmos on November 15, 2009 at 8:30pm

LMAO...I can't beleive my eyes...I'm in the right class. Jackie C. you are so right on. I did'nt think I'd ever hear any one think or talk my language. I've read all your comments and see alot of good stuff. YES! if anyone is going to own an animal they have to be the LEADER! and if you are going to handle a horse you HAVE TO step up to the plate and take over the herd or get stomped on, that's just fact. I'm sitting here reading these conversations and thinking to my self " hahah do I have a surprise for you". I have a 3 1/2 yr.old thrbred/QH.stallion who was attact by a mmm bear? we think and he is thinking that I'm going to be one of his herd...hahaha I do'nt think so. It's going to be harder since his bad expeirence take longer but it's gotta' be done. I had started him when he was 2 1/2 and was on his back but now he's ready to fight with all... yet he likes attention and cooing. so glad to have found this group thank you.

Comment by Shirley on November 14, 2009 at 11:35am

Great comments. It is great how so many of us are searching for answers and willing to share what we've learned. "Seek and ye shall find" This information is our treasures and pearls when horses are our passion.
Sappy?

Comment by Jennifer Lamm on November 14, 2009 at 11:16am

Fiona. I had a truly dangerous horse and I just learned how to show him that I could be leader, and we went nice and slow..... I hope you stay safe. I can totally recommend that you watch Chris Irwin's videos to show you some real subtle body language that does not encourage dominance and actually softens the bad boy... I'm here for you, in the same boat and of course Jackie has awesome ideas too.

Comment by Jackie Cochran on November 14, 2009 at 10:09am

Hi Fionna--Let me say first that I do not know you and your horse, every case is different.
I find that a simple way to establish leadership at a distance (not touching) is to bring my shoulders back and inflate my chest, and then stepping forward (one step) abruptly. This has worked for me with geldings and mares. DO NOT use on a stallion as a "threat" (ie. facing his head), just strut around him when handling him. Horses feel more secure around people who ACT brave.
Boss horses can learn that their wimpy little human (like me) is the supreme boss. The thing that has helped me the most is an attitude of supreme determination that the horse WILL obey me, there is no option.

If you feel like your horse is truly dangerous there is a site that sells Beery's horse training course and pulley bridle. It is horsetrainingresources.com.. Beery was an American "horse tamer" that developed methods that did work with dangerous horses back before everyone got a car. While I do not approve of his throwing the horse, everything up to that is sound.
I have found that if I have SEVERAL solutions in my mind that the horse is quicker to cooperate. If I have in my mind gradually escalating methods of insisting on obedience the horse obeys quicker. Sometimes it is best to have a piece of tack like the pulley bridle and never use it, just knowing that you can go to the next step is sometimes enough to convince the horse to cooperate.
I will get myself a pulley bridle next year just to have it. I will be surprised if I have to use it more than three times before I die because I have a lot of other solutions I can use. I gave a pulley bridle to my riding teacher, twice we have discussed using it on problem horses, gotten it out and looked at it, and then my teacher never had to use it because the horse decided to cooperate in its next training session. Strange but true.

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