Quality Horse Breeders

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Comment by Ann Hatfield on December 12, 2009 at 12:05pm

I am off to an AI course at Olds College (AB,Canada) in March. I want to decide if I will advertise for outside mares and whether I will do AI with my jack for my mares and/or outside mares.

Those of you who do AI on your stud, would you kindly let me know what equipment I should be looking for, and what I should avoid as unecessary or poor quality. How large is the room in which you are doing the AI work after the collection? I am finally getting a barn after 20 years using one that is log, has a roof like a colander, and is 104 years old! I want to incorporate the right space and structures in the room, so your experiences would be most useful.

Any tricks or tips you have learned through the years would also be most appreciated. Thanks for your time.

Comment by Ann Hatfield on December 7, 2009 at 11:27pm

Hi Shell,

Your market sounds wonderful, and of course your animals must be really good and your marketing as well. I can hardly imagine having presold foals, though I have seen a couple of sites advertising them I don't know how they are doing.

I see by perusing the Internet, a wide range of prices. One Arab breeder, who was going out of business, in Texas, was giving away some and selling others for $500 US, papered mares, mostly! Other Arabs are going for only $1000 Canadian to about $10,000. (The reason I have been looking at Arabs recently is the thought that I will get a mare to breed some endurance mules. I have ridden some endurance races, on my Polish Arab, whom I just had to put down in early old age-failing kidneys-and thoroughly enjoyed the racing. Mules have done reasonably well in some of the 'big' races like the 100 mile US Tevis Cup in the past, don't know about recently. I would like to see what a really well-bred endurance mare bred to a good jack would do.

In this country it seems that hunters, dressage horses, 3-dayers and show jumpers still command good money. In the Western world the cutting horses, and probably reiners, are at a premium. I do not know the other markets for Western horses. Many breeders have to keep these babies and train them up to at least lower-show levels to get these prices, though, a very costly enterprise.

We, too, have a migration of older or early-retired folk to rural areas. Some seem to buy Quarter Horses, at least in western Canada. Ah, yes, the cowboy mystique lives on. Gaited horses have been quite popular but do not seem to sell for the prices they did.

Hay has climbed in price sharply in the last few years. Despite the drop in numbers of beef cattle (terrible market and mad cow disease affecting the poor ranchers), there have been so many very dry areas across Canada, producing much less hay, prices have risen. In many places, if it isn't irrigated it doesn't grow anymore, or doesn't grow a second crop.

We are lucky, though it wasn't just luck as we set out deliberately 20 years ago to find land in a climate like this one, my husband and I. We live in an area that still has sufficient local rainfall and grows good hay. But small rectangular bales of say 60 pounds, what 25 kilos, cost $6 to $8 right in this area, where they are grown, depending on quality. Grain is getting expensive, too, and one of our feed mills just shut (reduced sales to beef growers).

I am still trying to find out what horse-breeders in Canada and around the world see for the next few decades. I don't want to be an alarmist, but I think any of us who wnat to be in the industry for any length of time need to look ahead.

Thanks for your view from down-under, it is instructive and heartening. Please don't feel you go on too long, it is very useful.

Ann, Maple Leaf Mules, BC

Comment by CM Sporthorses on December 5, 2009 at 12:33am

Hi Ann,

Good question about the recession......

To be blatantly honest - its not really affecting us too much.

We have sold everything as soon as its hit the ground basically, and have a waiting list and 'orders placed' for specific matings that are in the process......

We try not to 'overbreed' (ie: have toooo many on the ground), but its been lovely as even if we havent sold one in the first month of its life, we have sold everything before the next lot are due.... the only ones we havent sold are the two we are keeping and planned to keep pretty much from the start.

Sadly, yesterday we lost a mare.... a lovely big chestnut roan stock horse mare..... she had a 2 week old foal on her - so he is going to be hand raised, though we have an older maternal mare in with him hoping they will bond and she will come back into milk. We have done this before, and have lots of experience with orphaned foals, so it shouldnt be too difficult.

Where we live, we also have the luxury of living in prime cereal cropping country - so all our hay is very cheap compared to other areas, as is our grain - we just buy direct from the farmer. It makes it so much easier and cheaper!

We have a very low mortgage repayment (only have a mortgage as we bought another property in June/July - didnt have one prior to that - we owned the other two properties outright) - so we dont have to factor that into the prices of our foals either.

We also do pretty much all of our own vet work - with the exception of the stuff that needs signing off by a vet - our vet is 300 km away - so is happy to put any medications we might need on the bus for us and we have a really well stocked fridge and storage area full of anything we might ever need.

We are finding that people are still after quality bred horses - its the 'cheap end' of the market - the Off the Track Thoroughbreds, Standardbreds, and non registered horses that are usually sold for the $1500 and under prices that are being not selling, and the ones with 'issues' too......

So it doesnt really affect us greatly. Those with money to spend on a GOOD horse will still buy. the Recession doesnt seem to have affected them too greatly.

I think its much worse over there for you guys than it is here too..... more people here are going for the rural lifestyle these days and the serious competitors are still buying horses and youngsters to grow up and compete with.

The oldest any of ours have got to before they sold is about 10 months old..... we would dearly love to keep a couple til they are 3 - 4 yrs old and going under saddle - but they just dont hang around.

I do all our marketing - and its mainly done through our website and forums and other websites.....

As far as what we are thinking about the recession and our breeding program at the moment - we basically have looked at all of our mares - worked out what we have 'pre ordered' for this next foaling season (quite a number of them) - so they HAVE to be bred - and then the waiting list to see what is born - (again, quite a number), and have worked out what stallion will compliment what mare and then taken it from there. And which mares need a bit of a break before going back in foal - some do better if they are served on their foal heat after dropping a foal, and others do better if they wait til they have weaned or almost weaned their foal...... just depends on the mare and how they cope.

This year we have decided to breed all of the mares because we would really like something to hang around and grow up and sell as an older going horse...... so if we dont sell something - that doesnt bother us.

Having just had a really crap year and lost 3 mares in the last 3 months (totally unrelated and nothing we could have done about any of them - one disemboweled herself completely, one had an aneurism and we did an emergency C section - got the foal out alive but had to put it down as it wasnt viable, and the last one yesterday - looks like snake bite or a colic...... Plus we had two mares go VERY late this year - and both had dummy foals who didnt make it. So that has impacted us greatly. Time to go shopping for a couple more mares I think!

The bonus of having to go shopping for new mares at the moment is that people have some lovely OTTB's that they havent been able to sell, so we should pick up a couple at reasonable prices.

Gosh I am rambling..... sorry about that - tell me to shutup please if you dont want this much info! I wont be offended.

As far as Aussie horse breeders talking about things goes - from reading and discussions on a lot of the horse forums here - there are some who dont seem to be able to sell anything at all - and then there are some like us who dont seem to be having any trouble selling.....

I think it comes down to being prepared to price your stock realistically (we dont have the overheads that a lot do), produce GOOD stock, and market them correctly.

In Aus too it seems that with the internet - if someone peeves someone else off, then they get slammed and people dont tend to buy from them. So it pays to watch what one says on forums - without compromising your views and opinions - but just not being obnoxious about it. if that makes sense! lol......

I think as a breeder - having the guts and convictions to refuse mares or refuse to sell a youngster to someone that you know isnt going to be suitable for the horse is also a big thing......

We have turned mares away from our stallions and suggested other peoples boys who might suit the mare better, or if the mare is truely awful - having the guts to point out that perhaps they might need to find a mare with a better 'back end' 'legs' 'neck' etc...... whatever the case may be..... is beneficial - as you then get a reputation for not just breeding your stallions to anything that has a uterus.....

Cheers................ Shell

Comment by Ann Hatfield on December 4, 2009 at 10:23am

Shell, Thanks for the long info; it is really interesting! It's facsinating to hear the conditions under which other horse people live/work.

What are you and your husband thinking/doing/marketing for with the recession?

As someone entering breeding (late in my life too, oh well) and who knows a bit about local marketing and the labour market-changing radically, I am concerned about how all of us should be attending to the alterations in our economies. I posted this as a discussion in this group but haven't had any responses.

In Canada we have a low birth rate and many of our new people are immigrants who move to cities. Our native people have the highest birthrate but are also moving to the cities, and either have some horses, rurally or are not in a position to buy any, and they are not the one paying a good price to get show animals, anyway.

From what little I know of generation x and gen y they are not much interested in buying horses, at least not yet. So, who will be? Anyone at all?

I have heard of only one breed organization (Appaloosa Canada) addressing this in conference with breeder members, but the message was 'be aware that this trend is happening' with no suggestions of how to deal with it successfully. I think many of us breeders may disappear, fewer if we can antiipate who are new buyers are and market well.

What do you and other Aussie horse breeders think? Do you talk of this? How are your markets changing in this recessions and over the next couple of decades?

Ann, Maple Leaf Mules

Comment by CM Sporthorses on November 30, 2009 at 2:26am

Hi Ann,

You should have seen it when we moved from NSW's Upper Hunter Valley to here - 2000km trip dead on..... in January - which is meant to be the middle of summer here - but thankfully we had a cool change come in and it drizzled rain the entire way over..... we had 9 horses and a cow to bring with us.... as well as the dogs, cats, snakes and fish.....

The horses were in a cattle truck so they were loose - much better for them to do the trip straight through like that - they could put their heads down and move around a little.....

We stopped for water and feed breaks, it took 24 hours straight through... changing drivers at breaks for watering them and fuel....

Generally, they travel pretty well in the heat.... the trucks are well ventilated (the transporters trucks that is), some are air conditioned.... they are given water and feed regularly and in extreme conditions (42 - 49*C) they stop at depots for the day and travel at night when it gets down to about 30*C.....

Occasionally a horse will get travel sickness - we have only ever had ONE get that - a youngster who went 2000km - its pretty rare for any of them to get ill due to the great care the carrier we use all the time gives them.

We dont have diseases like you guys have - we only vaccinate against tetanus and strangles........... very rarely anything else......... its not an issue here in Aus :)

We have had Hendra go through some horses in QLD, but thats thanks to the fruit bats - some people and horses have died from that one.

Equine Influenza shut Australia down for months a couple of years ago..... Some twit let it out of the quarantine station when it came in on a shuttle stallion (TB)...... it devestated our industry in the eastern states.

South Australia shut down for a while, but got back to 'normal' pretty quick, and Western Australia hardly shut down at all.

Our distances helped with that obviously!!

Ok............ so WHY Cleveland Bays???

I am a large person..... 5 ft 10, and about that round...... (I always describe myself as a draft mare in paddock condition lol).... and needed a horse that was up to carrying me and doing what I wanted to do (Jump, event, dressage and a bit of showing)....

So I found a really lovely big mare I loved, bred her to a CBSH stallion, and bred my first CBSH! :)

Since then I have been hooked, and we now have a collection of them! :)

Comment by Ann Hatfield on November 30, 2009 at 1:37am

Welcome CM. Lordy ONLY 2000 km to truck a horse. I hear of people lothe to bring a horse from the coast of British Cloumbia to the interior-about 500 km. How do your horses truck in your hot summers? Do you have problems with any diseases as a result of the long rides, shipping fever flus or the like? And why Cleveland Bays?

Ann at Maple Leaf Mules (Spotted sport and trail mules)

Comment by CM Sporthorses on November 28, 2009 at 7:30pm

Hi Guys,

I live in South Australia on the Eyre Peninsula (the triangly bit at the bottom of the country in the middle) - we are about 150km west of half way from Sydney to Perth.... so the middle of nowhere!!!

But it works to our advantage - we are right on the highway from East to West, and its only about 2000km to either East or West coast of the country, and therefore affordable for people to buy horses from us and have them trucked anywhere :) Works well for us :)

So, what do we breed??

Cleveland Bay, Warmblood and Coloured Sporthorses.

We have 3 Cleveland Bay Sporthorse Stallions -
CM Oberon Toblerone - Cleveland Bay x Holsteiner - 17.3hh, 10 yrs old.
CM Bedford Forrest - 3/4 Cleveland Bay, 1/4 TB - 17.1hh and growing - 4 1/2 yrs old
Billara Beersheba - 3/4 Cleveland Bay, 1/4 TB - 16.1hh and growing - 5 yrs old.

And a Perlino QH stallion who is of sprint/working breeding, and a really lovely athletic type - we have two of our CB x TB mares in foal to him at the moment - hoping for a nice athletic little CBSH from them - a bit smaller in height than 'usual' for a CBSH, and with the added bonus of colour! (Will be either Bucky or Pally - while Colour is NOT our main aim of breeding - the fact that we found a little stallion who is guaranteed to produce colour and ticked all the other boxes for us FIRST before colour was considered - was a major bonus!)

We are often asked by people if Clevelands come in anything other than "Bay" - because they love the CB temperament and ability, but arent fans of bay horses - um...... its a bit par for the course with CBs..... lol..... and we are also often asked if we have any that are going to be smaller - only around 15.2 - 15.3hh - because they dont want a HUGE horse.....

So hopefully the little packages we have due in February and April will do the job!!!

We have so far bred a number of Pinto CBSH's and a grey one.....

Our website is: www.cmsporthorses.com if anyone is interested in having a look at our kids :)

Am looking forward to conversing with you guys :) I have been a member of Barnmice for ages, but havent used it much as I am still getting the hang of it :)

Please point me in the right direction if you feel I am getting lost! lol

Comment by Ann Hatfield on November 18, 2009 at 6:07pm

comment


I live in southern central BC, the north end of the Okanagan Valley. I will be looking for a registered Arab broodmare this coming spring. If she had foaled one or more times so much the better. She may not get ridden, just used as a broodmare, so a horse with an injury that removes her from riding I would consider. It would have to be something that would not be exacerbated by being heavily in foal. My horses have a pasture and daily grazing, shelters, barn; they live in small groups and live at least a somewhat 'free' life. I have 50 years experience with horses. If anyone has a horse that might fill the bill, or knows of one, please let me know. I am particularly interested in a good natured, conformationally correct mare. I will skip the great athlete with a crazy personality!

Comment by Canadian Warmblood Stallions on November 11, 2009 at 6:46pm

Look for the new CWHBA 2010 Stallion Service Auction list to be posted as nominations are confirmed through December 2009. Videos currently posted on Barnmice will go offline at the end of November 2009 and as nominations are confirmed, video will be available again.

The list will feature stallions nominated to the 2010 CWHBA SSA plus other association material as available. The 2010 Stallion Service Auction will be offered live on March 14, 2010! Enjoy!

Comment by Ann Hatfield on November 4, 2009 at 1:34am

The Desert Normans sound a lovely cross. I had no idea that there was a registry for them. The two half-sisters I have are by a sire that is Percheron, Paint and Arab; one is registered half Arab, the other out of a Thoroughbred/Belgian. They are both very athletic with lots of natural jump.

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