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Pura Raza Espanola * Pur…
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Andalusian Lovers!!!!
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mona buchanan's Discussions
18 in wide lovatt and ricketts elipse dressage saddle
Purchased last month ......see the saddlefitter.com's website for picture. Fits my andalusian mare beautifully but the twist is too wide for my narrow hips Paid $2K plus shipping and duty $285.00.…Continue
Tags: lovatt saddle for sale, ricketts saddle for sale, lovatt and ricketts saddle for sale, dressage saddle for sale, saddle for sale
Started Dec 6, 2010
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awesome i love andalusians they are gorgeous just like friesians.
Happy riding
Halle Myers :)
I spent lots of time learning this and my friend with Pavon (PRE) and I discussed the pros and cons of each registry.
Please decide for yourself what is best for your mare, I may be too far off in the PRE camp for you. But as I said before, facts are what you need to have.
In the Morgan horse breeding, I have had a Morgan since 1979, they crossed to Saddlebred horses and identified it on the pedigree. Well I prefer the ones with NO Saddlebred in the bloodlines. There are mixes and crosses in the warmbloods too. The big difference is that NOBODY has started the US version of the Trakehner Stud Book, or the Fresian Stud Book so they can get the horses in that the 'real' books won't register.
I sure hope this wasn't too much ranting. I am feeling much better now that you know all this stuff. Just so you know, I can mix my food on my plate when I eat, ha ha. I am not always fanatic, just when I care so much.
Brenda
What bothers me most is the confusion, lack of honesty and the pricing of these horses who are NOT PRE. They can ride and compete but they can't ever get the papers from Spain so breeding them or crossing them with Portugese is corruption of the breed we call Pure Spanish.. There are so many egos and values and opinions that it is really a touchy subject, but it can be clearly explained because facts are facts.
The other issue I had to make up my mind about was whether I wanted or needed all the blah blah that goes with this registry business.
I decided that based upon my person goal or raising a baby it must have
#1 the best mare(s) I could afford
#2 the best stallion for a sire
#3 the PRE designation
Now the best horse I have ever ridden was the wonderful mare who didn't have a chance to get the registry as her grand sire passed away. Sad isn't it. But there still wasn't any guarantee all the other people involved wlith him and the dam would take time and money to get the job done for me. I dropped it.
And funny thing the dam's owner purchased a PRE stallion from Spain, imported him and ended up with a foal they can't ever get the papers for. Their choice.
Now we have The Foundation and PRE Mundial willing to register every horse with "Spanish" blood. That was not the original idea, it was a standard the Spanish held to closely as limits and measures and was a guarantee that the bloodlines would be absolutly as they want. How these groups do their registry is very different, everyone gets in. Even, the saddest part, crosses between Spanish and Portugese horses. Not at all the Pura Raza Espanola standards.
For The Foundation of the Spanish horse the history is pretty clear. Some years ago there was a need for a US prepresentative to assist getting the paperwork to the Spanish group (the only group) in control of the one and only Spanish Stud Book.
The Spanish group of ANCCE, meaning Association National of Creadors- Breeders(in Spanish Creadors, and they alwasy double the letters if the word is plural,) Espanol. or the national breeders of spain was granted the right/previlge to handle the Government (of Spain) Stud Registy. Now that can be confirmed at the website and so can the rest of this explanation. When the US group had the brief alliance something broke down between the groups. I learned that the President Barb Currie was not the first one, but Kimberly Van Kemp Boyer - currently the presiident of the USPRE group, had the position. The changes were made public information a few years ago, I can look that up later as I found the letter from Spain that disolved the relationship.
I thought it was important to know that there is only one authority who handles the Government Stud Book through the Department of Agriculture in Spain. Anything else is just a "club" and I find it less than honest to portray it otherwise. That is my opinion only.
I am happy to give you the information I learned while looking into the very confusing topic of registrations.
I mentioned the first mare I looked to purchase was not eligible. Her dam's sire was never passed by the Spanish and it was rumored that he was short. I talked to the US rep while at the Fiesta Midwest in Ohio, Alexander Zilo, and he explained that some years ago there were people in the administration who were injecting their "opinions" not necessarily the Spanish Stud Book regulations. As I understood him, size or height of the horse at the withers was not a test. Over the years we have improved nutritian and the horses have been getting taller, to the size we now see.
If the horse has an opportunity to be reviewed by the authorities passing them for registration, then it may be possible even later in their life to get approved.
Well, the sire of the dam of the mare was living in Califronia. I searched and found him over two or three months, but just as I learned what needed to be done he developed a serious illness and had to be put down.
I can't believe the luck of it all, the horse was one time the most fabulous and celebrated stallion here in the US, he led the Rose parade in California, His name was Dax Duro. He had been lovingly purhcased by a woman who found him on a "rescue" site. He had been poorly used, tied up in a stall so he wouldn't mess his mane up and considering what he had endured became too "unruly" and was labled a dangerous stallion.
She knew him from years past and loved this horse. As it turned out he had the best possible turn in his life and was comfortable and loved until he died.
Well I cried and she cried and my friends cried as the opportuniity to give him his rightful place in the Spanish Stud Book just missed him. I would have arranged to get someone in California to see him, even in his advanced age, to get him approved.
I recently read some news on the Melpi website from Spain. There has been lots of discussion about the other registries around the world, such as PRE Mundial and The Foundation. Don't be confused by these registries, they are NOT the same as ANCCE out of Spain.
I looked into purchasing a mare not able to be approved for the same reason, her dam was never presented. I think that for some people and some uses it may not matter at all. For a stallion owner with a PRE registred through ANCCE they can breed any / all mares. If I have a PRE with papers I won't breed to a non-registered stallion, otherwise I don't give that foal the opportunity.'
If you do go through one of the other registries what is the cost? Are you going to register with IALHA too?
I never understood how The Foundation thought they could continue registering horses now they don't have the blessing of the ANCCE. There horses are Spanish, doesn't it make sense they have the real registry? As long as the other registries don't pretend to have the real authority it is just another place to join.
Let me know will you, what it will cost.
Do they offer a passport?
I read your comment about spending a fortune and stil not a good fit.
I have tried but didn't buy: HDR, M Toulouse, Prestige, Stubben, Courbette and ride in a County on my PRE Andalusian mares.
I met the fitter for the Borne saddle, she came to my home after the Ohio Equine Affair. She also went to my friend's home who has that stallion Pavon, my Paloma's sire.
She noticed something that nobody else mentioned about fitting these horses.
#1, the tracing for the stallion looked like he was A frame but he didn't fit a saddle for that shape, His tracings looked A because we were marking the shape BEHIND where his neck rose out of his back. His neck started back, deeper into his body, behind where most others started. The shape of A frame was a distortion, he is U shaped as are my mares.
Also the saddles I tried were too long in the panels and the bridged, they also were too long onto the croup area and my horses's muscle required the panesl be shaped in an upward slope to accomodate that feature.
She suggested a 17 or 171/2 tree and 18 saddle and I thought that was a solution.
She rides a Fresian and was accustomed to thinking in terms of back fit for the panel and fitting the seat of the rider with a different measurement.
I liked the saddle she used and will be buying one as soon as I finish paying other more ilmportant thinsg(the mare).
I like the county we use but would like it better if the tree was 171/2, as the seat is 18. again the panels are too long and don't give me enough room behind them on the horses's back.
Personally I like the widest gullet and wide and flat panels to fit with no bridging.
I will be asking what is used on Fuego XII, and you can contact Sr. Cardenas from his site CaballosCardenas.com
you may go crazy looking at all his beautiful horses though, and so far only Fuego Xii is approved to ship seam, oh as if that is bad.
Do you have info to share on your mares?
Thanks,
Brenda