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How to start natural horse manship
I am really into natural horsemanship stuff, but the problem is I just don't know how to start. I can't ride because I just got my plaster off from breaking my wrist from my horse buckin me off. So what is the first thing I should do on the ground. I might have to wait for a while because of my wrist. Could you please give me some idea's ?????????
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Jennifer Lamm on
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Good point Sassy..... totally... my horse is too close and I've tried many methods to no avail.. now, with a click for a reward when he is standing back, he is deciding on his own to watch his space around me..... nothing else really worked... the individual preference is so important but the end result should somehow come out to be a calm, respected handler with a calm respectful horse...... :) I've seen lots of trainers do things I can't even do...... and I'm sure you have too... did you enjoy your Chris Irwin experiences? I know I have....
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Permalink Reply by A_Sassy_Temptation on
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I liked Chris Irwins work and especially for training and working/breaking green horses. But to a degree the showing world has requirments that do not fit "the bill" so to say. I do showmanship, western pleasure, western equitation, halter, hunter under saddle, equitation and trail classes which means I can't use many techniques asked in Chris Irwins and other peoples ideas during natural horsemanship. Such as the horse length space, in halter class that would be unacceptable. But at the level where a horse is showing I would expect the horse to already know respect and commands, along with being relatively bomb proof and sacked out. The horse in the show grounds shouldn't be nervous or easily excited because of the ground work and trust I did with him as a green horse. Natural Horsemanship to me is the ground work and fundamentals, not really a discpline, and I guess thats why I don't really like Parelli.
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Permalink Reply by Shirley on
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Sassy, could you explain what you mean a little more, "Natural Horsemanship to me is the ground work and fundamentals, not really a discpline, and I guess thats why I don't really like Parelli."
I'm just not getting what you mean here....and I'd like to get your point. Don't all horses need the ground work and fundamentals before they can be taught a discipline?
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of course! Every horse needs the fundamentals and thats what I meant. Horsemanship is not something to learn as a discpline such as dressage or western pleasure showing, its the respect and trust that is done when starting a horse=the fundamentals which EVERY horse should have, and EVERY handler should know. My horse wouldn't do a slow lope with his head low with no rein contact and just spur roling if he didn't have the confidence in his rider which was started with horsemanship work ie him trusting me with new things and him learning respect. YES I need to learn how to comunicate during fundamentals, but after the horse trusts me and respects me I move on to a discpline wether it dressage, jumping, competitve trail, or western pleasure. WIth Parelli its just a bunch of "games" that go no where unless you want to be Parelli and I don't think natural horsemanship should be a discpline, it should be taught as fundamentals towards a good safe, respectful, and trusting mount which is the basic fundamentals which you work on and extreme them through exageration (dressage) or hesitation (western pleasure) as examples. I am sure its a matter of opinion on what I said, but natural horsemanship to me IS NOT a discpline, its the fundamentals. period. And that is what I meant, every horse should be taught horsemanship/fundamentals, and then move away from it in its schooling career which would include trail riding. Parelli takes it to a whole new level which I think is bogus, they are trying to create a discpline out of what should be fundamentals and making it look like trick training. A horse can eventually find out what you want and learn tricks towards it, such as Parelli, the horse learns what the rope shaking is, etc etc and its not bonding and natural horsemanship, its tricks, no one is the leader, the horse is just doing because he knows to do it. I am rambling on..anyways horsemanship is important, I even show in it (there is a class called horsemanship and believe me it has nothing to do with Parelli, or any other "games" trainer) but its a very good key for fundamentals, then once you have a good relationship with the horse its time to move on.
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I am pretty familiar with the Parelli's and their program and it seems that your knowledge is based on the beginning levels of the Parelli program...their fundamentals. They DO go on to much more advanced things~~ They have students that are involved in many different disciplines. Linda herself practices dressage and takes lessons with the dressage master Walter Zettl. He did segments at each of the Parelli tour stops across the country last year giving lessons to Linda. It was very beautiful and inspiring. They invite many famous people of different disciplines to perform for their students so they see what is possible if they want to move on to greater things. They allow the individual to choose that discipline. They are not about one discipline.
I just want anyone reading this thread to see the Parelli's with open eyes. Their whole program is huge and involves much much more then the fundamentals, and games and tricks. Please understand that. I have had a few conversations with people that say they don't like Parelli (or others with similar views). When I ask them why~~no one has yet given me a reason that is based on true facts about the program. Except for 1 ~~A few have said "because he makes too much money" or something along those lines. Parelli's work hard and have hired good marketing people and do wonderful things for people and their horses and deserve to make good money. That is what experts and specialists do. They get paid well for their skills.
Best wishes to all of you that are looking for someone to help you get safely started with your horse and then to go on to do whatever your heart leads you to with your horses. Happy Trails and Keep Horsen Around! with Prior and Proper Preparation.
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Linda's explanation of horsenality got me to the relationship I am with Oliver.... ") each program has so much in it, thankfully we all have tons of time to horse around.....
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But isn't that discipline dressage not Parelli (or any other expert)? This is the problem I have, is when does it become parelli or A discipline? I don't have anything against them making money, it means they are doing something right, but I have watched videos and I see the same thing "tricks and games" many people consider parelli as a discpline, its not, its fundamentals in which people can take to another level, but once your doing dressage your not doing parelli. Natural Horsemanship is not a discipline its fundamentals just as you said "Best wishes to all of you that are looking for someone to help you get safely started with your horse and then to go on to do whatever your heart leads you to with your horses" that is the ipitame of natural horsemanship in one quote.
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I suppose some people do consider Parelli a discipline of sorts.
A person could put their full efforts into improving and mastering the 'tricks and games' and other skills that are taught in the various levels of Parelli.and advancing it to the levels that we might see in "Cavalia".
I think a person can use the Parelli / Natural Horsemanship attitude and fundamentals in any horse riding skill they wish to pursue. I see it as a mind-set, something in a persons core or heart that causes them to do things with a certain attitude of respect for the horse. I'm NOT saying a person has to be a student of Parelli's to have this type of Natural Horsemanship attitude with horses. I personally don't think of Parelli as a discipline in itself but I can see where some people would view it as such because of the time and commitment that often goes into developing or even mastering it into the Upper Levels that are available.
I can agree to disagree. I just want people to have an accurate impression of the Parelli's Natural Horsemanship. I can't speak much for other trainers with somewhat similar views because even though I have seen videos and read books about many of them I know I've only scratched the surface of what they are all about and I don't feel qualified to state much about them cause my knowledge IS limited with each. I've seen lots of good things by many. Some of those ideas I like to use myself.
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When I watch Parelli videos I get emotional... Mr. Parelli himself stated that he feels that the horse has a muscular, mental and emotional side...... I like that part of the program..... it is more fun for ME and I am trying to have fun here with my life..... my passion..... so the attitude I like and Chris Irwin's attitide of learning the language so we are not rude to our horses....
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forgot one thing with clicker training, if done proper it can be good, but I like generic ways of getting a horse to be respectful. You always have to think, if you had to sell the horse, would you he/she be able to be respectful without a clicker and treats? Clicker training to me is trick training, you are teaching the horse to stay by means of reward (usually treats), while "natural horsemanship" is being herd leader and having a horse respect you through pressure and release system, and at times actually showing whos boss. Your horse MAY be doing the staying away from you because he has realised he gets rewarded for being away through tricks like "sit, and stay", not because he knows your boss and deserve respect.
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:) I totally understand what you are saying... the clicker really is a release of pressure... that's why it works so good..... anyway, I've spent 6 years and countless dollars on training... my trainer is awesome..... my horse still doesn't stand away from me though on his own.... he needs to be told every day.... it's endless...... so I am back to individuality and what works...... even with all the training Oliver has had, he is not sellable to a new person... for many reasons.... if I have to ask him to back up every day to get out of my space, he is trained to back up but he isn't thinking to just stay out of my space on his own...... and I definitely have to show him who is boss sometimes, but that just isn't my style...... my horse needs constant reinforcement.. why not make it positive....
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he's doing much better anyway today with regular herd leadership and body language... i didn't use the clicker at all...... but I did reinforce the behavior I wanted with good old release of pressure.... i think Oliver just is wired that I deserve respect because I have what he wants and I know how to wait for what I want before he will get it.... then, when he is being good he will be rewarded last summer, I started with a boot camp and for five months I showed him who was boss..... we had no relationship.. I roundpenned him evry day.... he was still blowing me off... now, ... if he is being a brat he gets squat, in fact, I'll just leave... most horses want you to leave, I know Toby does... but Oliver, no.. he wants you to stay... .... now my purpose of this exercise was not to teach him anything except to soften.... and not be so pushy..... today for the first time in over 5 years, he did not come up to me at all persistently or pushy.... he thought about keeping his distance..... anyway, his attitude is what I'm working on... and he's having a better time and doesn't seem so mad..... that in inself is reducing his shithead ways and also he is loosening up, thinking more, relating better and paying attention... I needed his attention before we could do anything else... he's engaged now and I used a little bit of everything I've learned about relationship training today, no clicker, but did have the best day I've had so far...... he is really joining up and it's really fun.... makes me want to ride him more when I see him being respectful on his own.. not because i made him.. he's not a nice horse if you have to make him do something..... he gets cranky and then dominant... now, I can say one thing honestly and agreeably with you... I started 6 years ago with only caring about if I had a bond with my horses.... one of them was sold a zillion times... he's a nice horse, he is a respectful horse, he's also dead inside..... he has no personality, he's skittish, scared and it's taken me alot of groundwork, body language, herd behavior to get him to the horse he is today..... I am totally against selling horses repeatedly..... somebody sure showed him who was boss once and now that I show him a softer side, he is superly relaxed now and trusting....... so I so agree with you about the natural stuff... I used the clicker and treats to get his attention because he's food motivated horse..... as in Oliver now I'm talking about.. now that I have his attention, I only treat him if he moves on, shows a good attitude and is willing to learn...... otherwise, he doesn't get jack and he knows it...... today he followed me around, came to me when I called him and joined up with me and I had no treats and no clicker.... he dropped, yawned and was going to roll....... he's softening..... that's kind of what I'm looking for.... :) whatever else has been done with him for the last 5years, even under constant training was making him fearful of strangers and aggressive to new people.. I'm trying to see if I can do away with his behavior and see if this works..... maybe I'm a loser and have no chance...... but if he pays attention to me then I can at least work with him on even better manners.
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