Ancient Origins (all breeds)

Comment

Comment by Over Fences on August 31, 2009 at 12:28pm

This an Olden. apparently the creme gene has been identified in warmbloods. and as they become easier to produce they will become more common place.

This color modification always existed in these horses. It was just "hiding".
Under the right conditions with both breeding animals contributing to the inheritance of a color modifier such as creme, it is fully possible to have pure TB's or WB's in creme dilutions (Buckskin, Palomino)

Comment by Over Fences on August 31, 2009 at 11:57am

Olden is a favorite of mine too, based on another favorite of mine the Friesian. It is a heavier warmblood than the other breeds. It's original purpose was farmwork.

Later it was widely used as a coach horse becuse of it's size and movement. The official breed society began in 1819. At which point Thoroughbred, Half-Bred, Hanoverian, and Norman blood began to be selectively bred in to enhance, refine, and generally upgrade the breed.

The results were a fully capable, modern sporthorse. This is now one of the "less open" books. Very minimal outside blood is allowed in the form of TB or other approved WB breeds.

Uniformity in the breed type has been long established.

All stallions are performance tested and the registration process is very selective of any individuals applying. You dont simply have an Oldenburg foal because you bred an Olden. mare & stallion.

Comment by Over Fences on August 31, 2009 at 11:41am

The Llippizaner breed, founded on nine Spanish stallions24 mares imported to Lippizza in 1580. Later improved through the use of Arab and Barb Blood. An Ideal mount for the "Spanish Riding School " which was et up eight years prior, to teach classical riding to the nobility. The Scool stud at Piber, Austria now produces the best Lippi. stock

The types now vary slightly according to their intended purpose, but the book is controlled, the purest lines have preserved the breeds unique features.

All trace to five stallions of Andalucian decent and one famous white Frederiksborg Horse "Pluto"

Comment by Over Fences on August 25, 2009 at 12:11pm

Well good morning Jackie I was in town all day yesterday & did'nt get a chance to get on the computer. We're off the grid up here, so I can only use alot of power during the day because we run on solar panels.

Yes I have read about, written about, and seen many pictures of The Sorraia, It was the first equine to be domesticated in Europe, and is a variant of the Tarpan, It is the accepted primitive ancestor to the famed Andalusian & Lusitano. I would imagine, much like other breeds around the world, the representative horses of the area (Andalusians) would have been based on the available "native" pony (in this case sorraia) with added arab & barb blood to refine the type & quality.

These horses are definately the ancestor to our mustang herds displaying the Dun Factor. Kigers etc. Our AQHA horses inherited the dun factor from their mustang heritage. I believe all the American breeds can be traced to spanish stock, and through them the Sorraia. The possibility of them having come as pack animals is exciting though, because that would make the closest resembling mustang herds like an extension of the remaining herd in Portugal.

The herd of 200 is a privately owned refuge in Portugal where they roam wild, and with as little help as possible so thay can breed the way they had been since before humans.
Since their discovery in 1920 tests have been carried out to monitor the degree of inbreeding within the population, and to asses the possible role as ancestor of modern breeds. a sudbook for them has been opened, but they are not a breed of equine are a primitive subspecies of Eohippus.

If we had this breed available in the US I would love to have one as a child's or cart pony they're the most beautiful of the ancient ponies. They look like a mini QH they nearly always occur in Dun colors. Theres a handful of greys and a palomino or two. Wich probably denotes some level of crossbreeding.

Comment by Jackie Cochran on August 21, 2009 at 1:37pm

Schafer posits four base horse groups:
Northern group: The Primeval Pony
Northern group: The Ancestral Cold-Blood
Southern group: The Steppe Horse
Southern group: The Proto-Arab
His hypothesis of the Tarpan is that it is the result of a wild outcross between the Proto-Arab and the Primeval Pony (on the margins of their ranges,) with later additions of runaway domestic mares.
If you get the book let me warn you that in my copy they mistakenly printed the first page of the Ancestral Cold Blood as the first page of the Primeval Pony chapter and vice-versa. This took me a while to figure out and I was very puzzled until I did.

Comment by Over Fences on August 21, 2009 at 1:12pm

This is the reason I'm here, to learn something new and see what other people have to say. I already know what I know I can either share it or take from other people knowledge.

Comment by Jackie Cochran on August 21, 2009 at 12:41pm

I have a book you should read, "An Eye for a Horse" by Michael Schafer (ISBN 0-85131-320-5), J. A. Allen, 1980. I know your scenario of the Tarpan is the accepted wisdom now, but Michael Schafer has an alternative hypothesis of the origin of the hot-bloods, separate from the Tarpan. I admit that Tarpan blood may have entered the Arab breed during all the historical confusion that has occured in Eastern Europe, but I do not think that hot-bloods show descent from the Tarpan. This is my personal opinion, but since I don't think that we will ever KNOW for sure a lot of different opinions can only be expected. This is what makes life interesting!
I hope you can find a copy of this book, it is well worth reading, and certainly changed some of my opinions on the origin of the domesticated horse. Maybe someday DNA analysis will prove all of us wrong, but until then I find all hypotheses very interesting.