Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Tracy McDermott on December 8, 2009 at 6:14pm

Linda: My husband and I run a public boarding stable in Calif. and over the past 30 years we've seen every kind of colic in all the age groups with all the various breeds. Your mare will be gut sore for easily a week after treatment. Imagine the worst case of constipation and gass you've ever had but are unable to tell anyone because you can't speak. Banamine is a pain reliever NOT A CURE, it will MASK symptoms not cure them. Like morphine for a broken leg, no pain but the break is still there. If your horse keeps laying down (not flat out) won't get up from laying down and keeps rolling or trying to roll, biting at the sides of the belly or grunting you need to call the vet immediately, keep the horse walking and warm until the vet gets there.
We found that a consistent schedule for feeding is easily the best prevention, the same feeding time the same basic riding schedule and if you have a late day and get home late for feeding, feed 3 apples or hot mash first.
Try that and see if it helps prevent another occurrence, is she colic recently it is more likely to happen (if it's going to happen, it might never again) in the next month.

Permalink Reply by Linda White on December 8, 2009 at 6:27pm

Thanks, Tracy. I agree about the banamine masking symptoms, plus I also heard it slows the digestive system down and that's not going to be helpful if she's in the middle of a colic. I would only use it if the vet couldn't get here immediately.
So far so good - we cut out pellets, now she gets very wet beet pulp with oats, probiotics, and flax seed each night. I now stretch the hay over 4 feeds a day, and I'm just about to install a slow-feeder - gives her access to hay 24/7 without her getting fat on it as they have to work it out of the feeder. I've also gotten some stuff from a homeopathic person - not sure I totally believe in it, but it's not invasive and I figure it can't hurt her. The homeopathic person believes she was exposed to a pesticide - I rarely use fly spray and she thinks she was bitten by a bug/spider that was full of pesticide. Whatever - she is definitely on the mend, gaining weight back and is more her old self. I love that horse and it would kill me to lose her, so I am watching her like a hawk.
Thanks for your input.

Permalink Reply by Tracy McDermott on December 9, 2009 at 12:04am

Linda please remember that pesticide, venom and most poisons kill by volume, reactions to any of these elements are also by volume. I mean that a pesticide filled bug would have to be the size of a mouse and disgourge all of it's poisoned blood system into your horse for her to react to an insecticide. If she ate pesticide/herbicide sprayed feed for a few days I could see her guts having a problem. Colic is usually rare. My 23 yr old Arabian had colic for the first time in his life at 23, it was minor and with oil and banamine injection (it is an anti-spazmotic, thus the slowed gut) he was fine. Be sure you have your horse floated (teeth) each year and make sure she doesn't grub (eat rocks or dirt from the floor or paddock).

Permalink Reply by Linda White on December 9, 2009 at 9:25am

Yes, I am having a problem with the homeopath explanation, but there are also a lot of horse people around here giving testimonials to this woman - she's a long-time breeder, trainer, and coach too. But, as I said, the treatment is minimal and not going to harm the horse, so I will proceed with it.
The teeth were floated and she recently had deworming for tapeworm since she had all the symptoms of tapes - no signs of them, however.
I don't believe she's eating anything from the floor or paddock, but if she were, then she's doomed because how in the world would you stop that? She is only in a stall for 15 minutes at night to get her beet pulp mash, but I keep an eye on her so she doesn't sift through the shavings for leftovers - something that has always alarmed me.
I am counting on the slow feeder to keep her digestion process going at a regular pace and hope that contributes to her well being.

Permalink Reply by Tracy McDermott on December 9, 2009 at 10:47am

Linda You sound like a wonderful attentive horse-person and I know you and your horse will be fine, colic isn't an end all just an ocurance. My husband has a Canadian Quarter horse and he is very sturdy. My first horses were Canadian Arabs equally sturdy. They just breed well up there.

Permalink Reply by Linda White on December 9, 2009 at 1:24pm

Thanks for the good words, Tracy. This horse and I have bonded so well that it would kill me to lose her.
Re the breed, she is actually a Canadian Horse/Cheval Canadien which is Canada's national breed. They started out in the 1600s being shipped from France, went through a couple of metamorphasis, evolved into a really tough easy-going breed that crossed the country with the pioneers, opening up the land. Quite a large number of them died in your civil war, sold to your soldiers by the French Canadians. They were an almost secret breed in Quebec for many years, but eventually dwindled in numbers to under 100 and historians became alarmed. Now the breed is recovering, they have rigid standards to preserve it as a heritage breed, and now are doing well in Canada, the US, and some are even in France. The saying is, They were bred to carry 200 lbs 200 miles - that's why they are referred to as The Little Iron Horse. But it's the personality of this breed I love - very willing, honest, closest to bomb proof you'll ever get, but athletic as hell. Many owners drive and ride them, plus I know a guy in Quebec with a small, 14HH3, stallion who pulls logs out of the woods, can be hitched with mares, pulls a plow, and beat 17HH horses in a Quebec Grand Prix jumping show. Very versatile.
Sorry to drone on, but I love this breed and I'm always happy to introduce people to it.

Permalink Reply by vickie lawson on January 26, 2010 at 11:49pm

we had the oddest, long time in recovering colic ever. my mare was just scanned in foal and we weren't sure if she'd keep the foal, but she did! the foal is small, probably due to breeding and the sickness. we treated the mare for over 6 weeks before she was really over it. that included 1 week of intensive care at the horse hospital, with synthetic protein, as the plasma leaked out of her blood vessels. 2 years later rose had her second foal and she has since had a 3rd. at 21 she is now doing light work with my daughter. she had trouble being paste wormed for tape worms in the 1st couple of years after the colic-showing slight signs of colic, that were fixed by feeding her probiotics for a couple of days before, but seems fine now. the person who leased her for the 3rd foal didn;t feed her enough so we had to fix that. but no colic!

Permalink Reply by Linda White on January 27, 2010 at 8:47am

Wow - dealing with colic over a long time - I think I'd be toast. It's so stressful for you, for the horse. And you could spend thousands of dollars quickly.
Fortunately, my mare seems to be just fine now. We switched from throwing hay 3 x day to slow feeders - they have access to hay 24/7 but can just nibble bits all day rather than gorge themselves 3 x a day. And I cut out pelleted food altogether. The horses are all looking fine and so far, no further colic. I hope that's the end of it.

Permalink Reply by Karen Bockus on January 27, 2010 at 5:38pm

Let me count the ways they can colic. From what I've read here every one has covered it. My big guy has colicked from being cold. He also colicked in his stall over night for whatever reason and ended up with a loop of intestine over his spleen. He barely survived. Since that episode I have done a few things differently. I have really backed off on worming. I have a closed little herd and I clean my pastures, so now I fecal test. I have given them a break in the amount of inoculations. I have heated buckets in my stalls. I always keep my big guy warm. The minute I see him shiver I blanket him. Sometimes it's only for a few minutes they I take the blanket off.
The vet also told me that long backed horses have a greater tendency to colic, just because of their organ placement. Just an opinion from my vet! I have gone just about two years now with no colic. I try to leave my horses out as much as possible. They are outside usually 24/7 during warm weather and at least 8 hrs in winter. My horses are feed via feed boxes outside which allow them to graze. Inside at night they are fed at 5 and again at 9. The single biggest caveat I know from all this, if you see them in stress relieve the pain. Because the greater the pain the more the intestines cramp!!!

If you want to see something worse watch try a horse choke. My QH almost choked to death on a piece of carrot. I saw it happen and have never witnessed anything so horrible. Four hours of tubing and the luck of a really easily horse, he survived. The after care to that one was interesting!!! I now only feed little cut up pieces of apple and carrot. He choked because he was chewing on a piece of carrot and put his head over the stall door which was a little high for him so he tilted his head up. Good reason to never feed a horse with feeders up high...... My vet went on to tell me how often a choke is unsuccessful.... Been lucky twice!!!!

Permalink Reply by Linda White on January 27, 2010 at 9:56pm

Arrggghhh - it's worse than having kids! This is why I never read Equus - I can never sleep at night thinking of all the diseases my horses can get.
Mine have access to warmed water 24/7, hay to be nibbled 24/7, and they live outside with access to a huge shelter with rubber mats... I too am doing the fecal test and only worming if there's evidence it's needed. And I've been asking around about vaccinations. It's surprising how many folks do not ever vaccinate. I cut way back this past year, but figure I have to do rabies and tentanus. The others - I"m still deciding.
Just came in from the barn where all 3 got yummy big carrots. Yikes! OK, I'll start cutting them up.

Permalink Reply by Cindy Jeffery on January 28, 2010 at 2:05pm

What are slow feeders? I have never heard of them I don't think. My horses are out 24/7, don't vaccinate unless there is something going around or we plan to be showing or socializing with others ie. boarders, clinics, trail rides etc. Our morgans (shortbacked) have lots of trees they can get under, also 24/7 water with a heater, 24/7 mineral salt blocks ( because I have 6 horses there are 3 blocks to choose from). I keep my 26 year old blanketed all winter, only take it off when it gets too wet or it is really warm 2 C above 0 C. They only get concentrates when they are working, I feed hay 2 times a day in 2 big feeders (3 horses around each), I haven't had any colic problems. Although I am interested in the slow feeders, because I know when I feed in the morning they are hungry and I know they would be happier.

Permalink Reply by Linda White on January 28, 2010 at 2:24pm

I found out about slow feeders on another list, The Canadian Horse list. They give the horse access to hay 24/7,but the horse can only graze versus gorging it down via round bale or throwing hay 3 x day. There are many varieties, but I chose to build/make the one I saw in this YouTube video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exxEEtsDRgk
The difference in my horses is unbelievable. They are so mellow now about eating. No more running into the barn for hay when they see you like they haven't eaten for weeks. No one gets ugly around the hay - they actually share. It's more convenient for me especially if we have company or are going out. Usually I fill the feeders at 8:30 am and 9:30 pm, but we're having a party on Sat and I'll fill them around 5 and won't have to go to the barn until the next morning. But mainly this was an effort to keep their digestive systems working 24/7 as they would in the wild. And, surprisingly, the horses seem to regulate themselves - eating more when it's cold, and slowing down when the temps go up.
There was an adjustment period at the beginning. My piggiest horse kicked the feeder in frustration the first 3 days and I was afraid her digestion would improve, but her leg would fall off. That soon settled down and all is well now. I wouldn't go back to the old way of feeding for anything.

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