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Trainers and mentors. Do you follow one or many?
How do you know the trainer/mentor is right for you and your horse? Who is your favorite and why?
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Jackie Cochran on
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When I started oh so many years ago there weren't any videos by trainers to confuse me. There were plenty of books to confuse me though. Hunt Seat trainers mostly lunged their horses with lunging cavessons, lunge lines and lunge whips, using the time spent lungeing to get the horse more physically fit AND to teach them voice commands (walk, trot, canter (or hup) and whoa.
I would hesitate to use a plastic bag on the end of the whip myself just because there are so many plastic bags blowing around in our environment that you might find yourself unexpectedly accelerating down the road just because a loose plastic bag moved behind your horse. Teach voice commands, they can be very useful in an emergency as well as on relaxing trail rides.
Oh, about lungeing, a lot of dressage trainers use side reins. Unless you are training for dressage side reins are not necessary, I never used them myself.
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Permalink Reply by Jennifer Lamm on
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I agree with you but Oliver is funny Jackie.... I am trying to see if he is scared of the bag or if he is merely responding to the energy. :) but yes there are a few bags flying around and you could be very right.... that's why I was wondering if I could get him used to it too.... anyway, without the energy of the bag, he won't move a muscle... :) so I guess that's good but it makes for a short trailride. ")
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I had a mare that would not move when I first mounted her. She would not even move if led. The third time I mounted her, I led her a little distance away from her friends, out in the woods, got up in the saddle and said walk. Since she wanted to go back to her friends, she walked. Of course I had already trained her in voice commands. As usual only do this if you have a safe place to ride and feel secure. Have someone else around, and wear a hard hat!! I had already led her on the trail to get used to it, both without tack and with the saddle a several times before I mounted her.
Another thing, you have to accept ANY movement at first, this is where I had gone wrong. But if your horse is heading back to his home, he should be willing to continue walking. You may have to wait him out, but so long his head is pointed toward home he should end up going home of his own free will, cheerfully.
While lungeing I much prefer using a proper lungeing whip with a "popper" at the end. It's lash is long enough so you can "pop" it closely behind his hind feet. You may find this helps when doing loose lungeing in the round pen. Do the voice command first, the "pop" the lungeing whip behind him. Be sure you a standing (in the center of the ring) so you are behind his head, and KEEP yourself behind his head. This is a common mistake for people starting out and one that I made at first until I learned better.
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My trainer and I do not even hang out anymore, but I love him.... I just asked him to put some miles on the Oliver man...... he rides him a few times a week for me.... almost my turn to hop on:)
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So I talked to Steve last night, my trainer.... he said, just jump up on him.... get a bridle and do bareback... now this will take some talking myself into, but I generally listen to what he says... I had a vision that I would have Oliver under control at liberty, then on a line, then under saddle, but maybe since he's such a clown, he is going straight for the under saddle stuff..... honestly though, he doesn't even move when I get on, he just sniffs my jeans and boots. :)
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Permalink Reply by Shirley on
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That looks like quite a stretch!! So you haven't rode him yet? If that is the case you'll have two ways to stretch...Do you mind sharing how old you are....approximate age teen~twenties~ thirty/forty?
There are many well-known professional successful trainers that use the plastic bag. My guess is that he's showing the same respect for it as many horses do a crop or lunge whip. If you aren't being cruel or over-aggressive with it he shouldn't get overly sensitive to the bag. Most horse realize the crop is to be respected but few learn to dread it or panic over it. Some do develop a huge fear but again I think generally that would only be when used abusively by someone somewhere along the line. Oliver doesn't sound like that from what you describe. With training, ya gotta find what works for you and your horse People are always learning new things and changing their mind as their experiences grow.
The fella that trained my horse did a wonderful job with my horse. But I needed to connect with Cash to really be comfortable on his back so I tried some of the ground things with him and it made a huge difference for us. My trainer uses the traditional lunging type stuff but doesn't play with the horse from the ground. I could tell my trainer was sceptical but was a really good sport about it cause 'i' was staying so nervous (for no obvious reason-inner fears in general maybe) and he didn't figure it could hurt to try most anything if it was helping me. AND, it has helped tremendously. When I had to move on away from the trainer after three years of close contact, he said "you've done a really good job" as he'd seen how I'd struggled to be brave and he also told my friend that he wasn't much for this particular trainers stuff but it had really helped me. I was so touched to know that he 'got it'. It seems no matter what you do people will try to tell you to do it differently so at a certain point you will realize you just gotta take the time it takes and keep learning along the way, and foremost listen to your instincts & never let anyone try to take your reins away from you. Literally and figuratively! And make sure you and your horse are having fun.
I bought lots of tapes etc. used on EBay and generally each thing I got cost about the same as a lesson or two. I figured I could sell them when I'd used them but so far all I've done is accumulated a nice little library. LOL! With the Michigan economy I may start selling that off. You can also get ideas by viewing different trainers and their students on you-tube as you'll get many ideas and hear many theories. You can also view segments of Chris Irwin training on one of the web-links, I think it's horse.com.It's one of the big horse suppliers that offer the video trainers to keep ya coming back. If that is the wrong one I'd guess one of Chris's fans could help out or ask on his blog segment here on Barnmice. I think it's a pretty nice free help.
My main mentors are my local trainer Andy Hart , Pat Parelli, Clint Anderson, and Chris Irwin. John Lyons is really good too, I've just connected more with the first few. Anyone that has a rather gruff way about them does not work for me. Chris Cox is great and works wonders for some but he'd leave me a bundle of nerves. That is if I ever spent the money to take a clinic directly with him. His tapes would have to be a little different. He can often get things accomplished very quickly with horse and rider. He pushes!!!!! and gets some people to go way beyond their normal comfort zone.
Well, that's been my experience and therefore my opinion. Jeez...I did get going, didn't realize how long I wrote.
Hope to hear back from you as you and Oliver progress. Doesn't sound like he's gonna be one to run off or buck easily so that's a huge plus. I found I don't break as easily as I thought I would but the ground is pretty darn hard and I'm sure my helmet has kept my brain protected at least once...cracked it up the back over 2 inches when I got bucked off. I put my horse and myself in a situation that we were not ready for on a trail ride. It was a green on green makes black and blue experience. A group of people came galloping up behind us in a camp-ground which many people have told me since is a really rude and stupid thing to do. We both went into panic mode but that was 3 years ago and we are still hanging in there together and mostly having fun.
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Hey girl. So, I'm gonna be 49, lucky me.... and I've had three trainers.... the third one is Steveboyleshorsemanship.com and he's even been on RFDTV. He is a mustang wrangler at heart... I was riding Toby, my 22 year old when I met Steve and he asked me to dismount..... all my other trainers had me neck reining and riding Toby on a loose rein and I got dumped twice.... Steve taught me liberty work, roundpenning and my horse went from blowing me off to completely whinnying for me, coming when called, standing when mounted, out on the trails me and Toby and Steve and Oliver went. :) before then, during a time when Toby was on stall rest and off for a year from a bowed tendon 4 years ago, he asked me the ridiculous question of if I'd like to adopt a baby mustang. Like my 2nd year I ever ever had a horse.... DUMB but willing I brought home an 8 week old orphaned, rescued wild horse... and that is my Oliver. Girl, he aint scared of anything... and Geoffrey uses as big word when he says... shoot I can't remember, GIVE? Now to answer your question Steve is a 220 pound black man with 45 years of horse experience that can round up a wild herd and separate stallions with a lead rope on foot..... he has taught me liberty like no tomorrow... Toby and I are good on the ground, not so hot under saddle and that is just about me only riding now for 4years... yes, I've gotten up on Oliver... bare back and with a saddle and he stands still. :) so I got off and decided to push him around and get the feel of my horse, his energy, his dominance number, which I learned from Chris and all that. Steve teaches with a rope... swinging.... or a Clinton Anderson stick, both of which have caused my horse to charge straight at me, and try and scare me to death and he does not back off... he is NOT scared... he is scary... Imagine a 4 year old mustang, weighing in around 1100 pounds coming straight at you..... now, i can say at least I don't move back anymore and turn and run...I have learned to stand my ground..... but I'm not gonna move him around with a stupid rope..... and so my trainer and I, we are at that crossroad after 5 years.... first he decided Oliver finally understood me, then he decided I scared him with it... broke my heart... that was about 3 weeks ago... Oliver and I are back to me mucking and feeding him and my trainer riding him... and me back to just playing with Toby... I'm sure a breakdown will cause a breakthrough... we've also had like 100 degree weather and the hugest forest fire in california history, so running around is not where its at right now.
I had Oliver following the bag too though... like Parelli does with the big ball.... and was merely using it for direct and drive.... I am a pretty good roundpenner.... I've been doing liberty work and living with my herd off line for 5 years.... when I put Oliver on a line, that is when he pulls my arm out of the socket....
I truly think I will get there and I enjoy the forum here to talk about stuff.... I can tell you in the 5 years of watching trainers work with horses, from Clinton Anderson, who his technique had Oliver rearing and striking, that was nice.. I broke my handy stick on my horse when standing my ground as he was almost on top of me, to Chris Cox, to Ponyboy, to Chris Irwin, to Pat parelli, I've never seen a horse like mine.... you can smack him and he will stand still and take it.... it's quite sad actually.... he does not give.... only to Steve my trainer, so he is the only one working him now..
I'm depressed but I can't let it wreck my life..... I had it goin on and now I don't... so until I talk to my trainer about it, we're done for now. :) as in me and O.... he tosses his head and trots off and then I do the Chris Irwin or Pony boy move to the other side of the fence and try and not make him scared...I've learned release techniques from the get go... this horse and I, we just have an energy problem... :(
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Sounds like you are really happy with Steve . He will help you figure something out.
So, what happens when Oliver charges at you if neither of you is backing off? That is a horrible feeling!
Cash does sometimes get excited on the lunge line and yank on me till he's loose but if I keep gloves on & use a rope halter, I win. Cash is doing it out of excitement and enthusiasm ...not cause he's scared. He's just letting go of some energy. I enjoy roundpenning at liberty too but where we board now there is no roundpen. But most days Cash will do the same stuff without the roundpen or line and I love that! The first few times he'd just run-off and then go as fast as he could... round and round the arena as fast as he could go but then he started doing what I asked him to do even when he's loose.
Keep us filled in with your progress.
Keep Horsen Around!
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I love Steve.. he is so good to me and my horses..... well, I worked with my bag and my stick today but I never pushed him forward with it, I asked him to follow me.... he was so leary at first, lol.... but I did my non predatory moves that Chris taught me and my go to the other side of the roundpen that pony boy taught me..... and once I trust him and he trusts me more I think we can both let our guard down.. he licked and he chewed more than ever and his ears were more forward... I never did any jerky or sudden moves and my mustang followed me at a respectable safe distance off line... he was having fun.... :) I have more plans, but I'll tell ya all later.... I just check in because Shirley said to fill her in on my progress.... I am pretty new and I make alot of mistakes, but when I'm brave enough to try something and motivated, I have to just do it.... right or wrong.... I think our energy was really good today. Only if he blew me of or did a little bit of a jerkey thing did I shake the bag in his direction and ask him to move forward but I never just went after him if that makes sense..... with both my horses today I practiced the first clinic lesson that Chris posts about blocking the head..... I feel better so that is all I care about, LOL... I did something and nobody got hurt or anxious..... :)
I took my dogs for a walk and my other horse toby.... off to play with the hubby now....
:) I like that keep horsin around, lol.....
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Good work there.
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THAT IS GREAT!!! Sounds like you had a very satisfying successful day and learned some new things about reading your horse and what to do about that!
And I noticed that your husband came in third for the day. LOL Horse, dog & then husband! I'm so happy that my husband is so understanding about how much time I spend at the barn. He keeps saying, "You are trying to make up for a lot of lost time." A little story that I must tell in appreciation of him. I had my first horse when we first got married and we were very young, both 18. I had earned enough money by working at a little variety store and a little restaurant and took care of the family laundry (laundry-mat & lots of ironing back then) to buy my first horse shortly after I got my drivers license. I loved my horse but I never learned how to be the Alpha with her and in many ways it was a bad experience as I had little control of her and no help from anyone. It's really (almost) a miracle that I never got hurt. So when I started my own family I sold her. A few years later my husband came home and he had put a saddle on lay away for me and told me to go find my horse. I said we can't afford it. Some years later he comes home one day and he wants to buy me this beautiful black yearling that he's found for sale. I said we can't afford a horse and I have no idea how to train a yearling. Several year later, shortly before he retired, he handed me a decent amount of money and said to go buy my horse and guess what I said! Yup, we can't afford it and I'm getting too old. The money went in the bank. Then my youngest of three kids started dating a girl with two horses. I went out to meet them. I rode her three year old haflinger and the bud started forming and the passion brought a new glow to me. The gal said I could come any time and spend time with her horses. I started going most every day and riding when ever she was there to ride with. Within three months I was in riding lessons twice a week (and shaking). I was starting to look for my own horse within a month after that. I had Cash picked out within another month and was going to the barn pretty much daily from then on. That has continued now for 5.5 years. And I blossomed into a much younger person! Maybe I should have named Cash "The Fountain Youth" Guess what happened next! He's the only CASH we have left!
And no, it didn't ALL go to Parelli's! (kidding). My traditional trainers and the boarding barn and a few tack shops and EBay got the rest! And guess what else! I figure he's worth every penny and my husband has never complained once and I feel like I can't afford to not have my horse.
I hope my little story wasn't too long. It's my own little fairy tale come true.
So, Everyone keep horsen around...it's good for ya!...If ya keep safety first of course!!
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Your husband sounds like a fairly tale come true too.... I think men that understand the horsey love a woman has is truly remarkable.... my hubby yesterday, after 5 years said as we were driving though out little country town where people have horses in their yard, "I sure can understand the reason why people get so attached to horses, they are such a majestic creature".. wow, now that is coming a long way.... my husband is a true workaholic..... he is hardley ever home.... my 11 animals keep this empty nester busy... I think he's grateful I have the distraction.... but he's really not 3rd.... I just make sure by the time he's ready to show up and go do something, I've already played with everyone else.... :)
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