Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Jen B on March 25, 2009 at 6:57pm

Hi Foxhunter, I'm sorry I didn't notice your post before!.

You can FOR SURE do natural horsemanship with an older horse. I started with my 12 year old that had no particular issues and it really improved our communication. Have you been working on anything with him since you wrote the post?

Chris Irwin has some DVDs that could get you started as does Pat Parelli. His Seven Games are a good start. I would recommend having a lesson or attending a clinic to get started, as you really need that hands-on exposure to get the principles.

Permalink Reply by Foxhunter on March 26, 2009 at 10:47am

Jen
Thanks for your encouragement. My barn owner has done some parelli so she has loaned me her book and spent some time helping me get started. So far we have pretty well accomplished him backing up (and also stopping fidgeting) when I waggle my lead line and he is learning to lead, turn, stand etc with me with no pressure on the halter. I bought a bitless bridle for him yesterday and am looking forward to trying it tonight -if he likes it he will be the only bitless horse in our hunt field which will cause some conversation I'm sure!

I am hoping to do a few Parelli clinics but can't afford to do the big ones yet so will have to be satisfied learning myself or through watching others. I spent March break reading Parelli and Sally Swift's books while my kids snowboarded so I am a little manic on 'connecting' at the moment. I plan to try riding bareback for the next few weeks to see if it makes me more aware of my seat etc - I haven't really done any bareback since I was a kid so I am anticipating aches and tumbles but I'll give it a try.

Now that the weather is better and the round pen thawed, I am anxious to try 'join up' but will probably wait until I can get someone out with me to show me how to do it correctly. Sometimes I think my guy knows what I'm trying to do but is laughing at me until I give exactly the right signal. Other times I think he is utterly perplexed by my antics. Then there is the odd time when we really 'get it' and that is what keeps me going.

I have a wonderful friend who is a vet and when I asked his opinion of what I was doing, he said that he had met lots of people who do it but that they are amongst the strangest people he knew! I laughed and now tell him how I am progressing on my path to strangeness.

Permalink Reply by Shirley on March 26, 2009 at 12:09pm

Hi Foxhunter! I love your attitude and if you continure with Parelli you will need it at times. You are most likely to get some ridicule from people that have 'no idea'. Parelli has really helped me and my horse. I think you will be so excited with what you can do with your horse even at 10 yrs. old. My horse was already well trained even though he was young but doing the Parelli program helped so much with our communication and bonding. If we had not learned how to 'play', I'd have ended up with a naughty...bored!!!! horse. Parelli's are not currently selling their Levels packages which takes you step by step from the very beginning of communication and are easy to follow. But you can often get their kits on EBay and there is still some people in Canada that do still sell the Levels packages. (At least they were a few months ago) I think you could use most any similar thing to the carrot stick to save money but their ropes are different...They do have some 'life' in them rather then being like a wet noodle when you cue with it. I do not currently have the newest "Patterns" kit but I hope to get it in the near future to help me be more entertaining/creative with ideas to keep things new and progressive. You get back what you put into it. The more time you put in the better result you'll get. The only people I've heard say they were unhappy with the system were people that expected immediate results. And then some give it a brief look and poo-poo it without even giving it a real TRY! Every horse is different too...we got thru the initial '7' games within a week or two. If you have any questions I'd be glad to share info. It's kinda hard to get all the information on them cause they have quit selling some of their aids. They are progressive and always trying to simplify the teaching techniques for those trying to learn at home. The Savvy Club CD's that you could buy on EBay fairly cheap also have some good and inspiring hints.
When you mentioned not being able to attend their clinics, were you talking about their week+ schooling programs at Colorado & Florida or their Celebrations that are being held in six states this year? U Tube also has many examples....some boring and some inspiring.
Enjoy!

Permalink Reply by Stephanie Sanderson on April 29, 2009 at 9:00pm

absolutly. You can do any of the natural horse stuff on a older horse. I started my mare on monty's program at age 8 and she is now 14 . She did just as good as my yearling is doing now. So go ahead as his methodes work on all ages. Join up is for eveyone and can change your relationship with your horse for ever.

Good Luck

P.S. It is also fun and rewarding.

Permalink Reply by Foxhunter on April 30, 2009 at 11:38am

Thanks guys, it is so nice to hear from others who are doing the same stuff with more experience. I confess we are moving along slowly but enjoying it none the less. I only make it to the barn a few times each week and one of those is to do feed which pretty much wipes out my time so we don't do new stuff every week. I was worried this would mean it wouldn't work, but it seems fine.

Toby now walks next to me, stops when I do and backs up when I do which is lovely and makes my life so easy when bringing him in from the field and generally maneuvering his rather large person about. He still fidgets in the barn. I have been trying to work without cross ties and just a lead rope and he has stopped pawing which he used to do. He does still look for 'entertainment' and will whip halters off the wall next to him or tip the wheel barrow and containers on the other side whenever he thinks I'm not paying attention. I am a bit of a spaz at managing brushes, leadrope and carrot stick so my reaction time is not as good as I'd like and I am sure he thinks its a fun game to hear me curse.

I haven't actually done join up yet. That is in the plans for the next week or so now that the pen is free of snow and my barn owner is going to help me as she has experience with this. Of course the pen is now all grassy so I'm sure keeping fatboy's attention on me vs the grass will be a challenge!

My bitless bridle is working fine. I took him hunting in it and he was a little strong so we went bitted the next week. I am working on voice whoa now and he is doing really well so I'm hoping to be 100% bitless soon. Whether we'll ever be 'at liberty' remains to be seen.

I am loving the interaction with him. Going to the barn has become more fun since learning this as I no longer care what the weather is doing because we can always find something to do that doesn't just involve me getting filthy brushing him just so he can go back outside and roll in the muck!

I'll keep you posted on how we do, but please continue to share your experiences and insight as it is so helpful and keeps me motivated.

Permalink Reply by Nicki Velozo on May 20, 2009 at 4:54pm

My natural horsemanship techniques are part of my way of being with my horses all the time. No matter if long or short or any age....or any type of horse or what ever discipline they've been trained. It's funny when I'll take a horse with an artificial buckle halter that's used to being lunged on a long line and throw a rope halter on him and do some lead bys. People think it's magic...there like how'd you get him to do that. He'll be disengaging an changing direction just by a pause and look from me and backing up just by a raise of the rope [of course after two or three trials to get him to understand what I want]....every horse is capable, it's not even about training, it's more about getting to the feet and recognizing the horse moves from all for quarters...determining what quarter you are asking to move.

I would start on the ground....if you have a round pen available ....let him go and work by driving him forward through pressure and then releasing...backing a bit waiting for him to turn in and acknowledge and gradually putting pressure on the outside eye to turn him in and drive in the opposite direction. If you don't have a round pen you could do lead bys with the rope halter same concepts for getting the horse to go forward..you will notice, the more you do it and the more the horse understands that ...it's not always about twirling your rope continuously to get his feet moving...it may even just be slightly lifting up your driving hand and he'll push on. How little can you ask to get the response.

Disengage, change direction...do this at walk, trot and canter
Use some tarp on the ground, or barrels, I have a pvc pathway in my paddock as well as a pallet with plywood nailed in to create a bridge affect. All of my horses will walk over the tarp, walk forward and back in the pvc L shaped pathway where I place there feet, gently, without knocking any of the pipes out of the way, the will cross the plywood pallet at a walk, jog or even back over it without hesitation. Work on keeping the horse straight when he should be straight or bent when he needs to bend.

From the ground stand on either side of your horse facing forward with your inside arm up on the withers and your outside arm signaling for the horses head and neck to bend...without the feet moving. Do this on both sides...again, how little can you ask and get the same response.

Facing the horse, ask the horse to step in towards you, straight...or signal for him to back straight...we also work on a straight railroad tie or pvc pipe...have the horse walk up to it and then you decide which front foot do you want to step over first...and only one foot at a time. This is accomplished by setting up the balance of the horse and the signal in the rope on the appropriate side, feeling your way into it.

When asking the horse to back up by grabbing a hold of the lead rope knot, your knuckles up...the horse by second or third step should drop and give you a soft feel and back more easily. Don't forget, it's not constant pressure it's an ask with each step.

We also practice walk, trot whoa...this is typical for showing, but my horses are just learning to do it at liberty too, which is an awesome feel. Try to get your horse in your pocket and to follow you around the paddock or arena. Have fast can your horse walk with you, how slow can you get him to step.

These things are a lot but should be done and done well all in good time. Baby steps...a little at a time...quality is most important.

Once you get all of this ground stuff down...I have simple things I practice with each horse 10minutes a day or before riding....a few lead bys, backing, walk trot whoa....then once I'm in the saddle....we do it all again...they've become habits for the horse and for I. These are constant things that we work on all the time. Even when we are on the trail, we'll ride on a loose rain but if I want the horse to collect up and give me a soft feel, we'll back a few steps....we'll practice our one-rein stop....we'll do walk, trot, canter, whoa....and work on our transitions....how fast does he walk ,how slow... and how little will it take for him to stop and be soft and stay soft.

All of this will get you and this horse in sync. There are also some great clinicians who travel in do clinics throughout the globe...if you can, try to get in on one or two of those. I'd look for Martin Black, Tom Curtin, Buck Brannaman...all real good names....not over commercialized like Parelli or Lyons...just real down home good ole horsemanship for a decent fee. Find other riders who also practice NH to work with and train with.

Hope this helps!

Permalink Reply by Marti Langley on July 26, 2009 at 2:13pm

LOL, I do not think John Lyons is over-commercialized. JMHO.

Permalink Reply by Shirley on August 14, 2009 at 1:40pm

Can someone fill me in on the JMHO?

Permalink Reply by Nicki Velozo on May 20, 2009 at 6:12pm

Foxhunter, check out the free video on Monty's site, it's a neat demonstration on join-up, I'm sure you'll enjoy! Monty Roberts, Join Up Video

Permalink Reply by Gabrielle on August 14, 2009 at 10:22am

Hi Foxhunter!

The good news is that its never too late with a horse...its just a matter of us learning their language. I would reccomend you look into Parelli and Klaus Hempfling, and other horsemen, and once you have familiarised yourself with the theory, start to play around with it, and do what feels right to you. You can start by just concentrating on things like leading your horse. Does he walk nicely next to you, or want to push/pull you around? Its small things like this that will start you and your horse off onto a journey of understanding, respect and trust!

Good luck! and if you have any more questions feel free to ask, and I'll do my best ;)