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RollKur or Hyperflexion
The other day, my young dressage students who are also 4H members came and asked me about Rollkur. Well, I'd never herd of it, but after seeing some videos and pictures on youtube, I am more than a little disturbed by this training method; however, I know nothing about the logistics of it. It seems to be very wide spread and used by Anky and Isabelle at the International levels.
Can you please help me to understand the theory, practicality, benefits and risks to using this technique?
Can you please help me to understand the theory, practicality, benefits and risks to using this technique?
Tags: Dressage, grand, hyperflexion, prix, rollkur, training
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Rollkur.jpg, 110 KB
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by katie Ross on -
The FEI has banned this method!!!!
under the facts of mental abuse!!!
Hi my name is Katie Ross
As some of you maybe aware from Youtube and facebook and other communal sites, I am totally against the use of rollkur as a training method for horses. For those of you who dont know what rollkur is please visit http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =4UwqyMCr_7c&feature=channel_p age
And http://www.sustainabledressage .com/rollkur/how.php
They both show how horses are bullied into submission at the force of strong hands, and how working behind the vertical causes damage to the horse, as it is made to take unnatural positions.
The damage done by rollkur is irreparable, please help me put a full stop to mental abuse to horses.
Lets stop cruelty horses
If you to also disagree with this method then please sign at the bottom with your name and location i.e. UK and forward it back to me at furry_devil@hotmail.com . And please send it on to others.Thank You.
1.Katie Ross, UK
2. Elizabeth Norton, UK
3. Jessica Brown, UK
4. Imogen McClelland, UK
5. Thomas Barnstable, UK
6. Sophia Mtaouaa, UK
7. Susie Burnett, UK
8.
9.
10.
its a shame that people like Anky can use such abuse and get away with it...
but then if you look at electric poles, pinn boots and freeze gel people think these are good idea to!
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Permalink Reply by Teddy Rekai-Nuttall on -
I'm really not sure where you got the idea that the FEI has banned the use of Rollkur. This is the most recent statement from the FEI on the matter coming after the FEI veterinary workshop, which follows the official statement after the dressage committee on the use of hyperflexion in 2006:
FEI Statement on Hyperflexion 11/11/2008
“The FEI held a successful seminar on Hyperflexion in 2006. There has been no change in the scientific evidence since that review. There are no known clinical side effects specifically arising from the use of Hyperflexion. However, there are concerns for the horses’ well-being if the technique is not practised correctly. The FEI does not permit excessive or prolonged Hyperflexion in any equestrian sport, and has a strict stewarding program to protect the performance horse in all disciplines.”
David Holmes
Executive Sports Director
Statement of the FEI Dressage Committee 23/02/2006
Follow-up on the workshop organised in Lausanne at the end of January
Following the “Rollkur” Workshop last January and various discussions in the media, the FEI Dressage Committee would like to make a statement as follows:
-The FEI Dressage Committee together with the FEI Veterinary Committee and the FEI Welfare sub-committee took the opportunity to involve and consult a wide number of experts (veterinarians, ethologists, scientists) in order to analyse the “Rollkur” matter. These experts were drawn from all over the world from the most reputable universities and with wide ranging experience. They are certainly not aligned to any method and presented their findings in an open and unbiased way.
The IDRC (International Dressage Riders Club) and the IDTC (International Dressage Trainers Club) representatives were also invited to this workshop.
The meeting sought to find a more scientific term for the practice and agreed that “Hyperflexion of the neck” described the method in a more accurate way.
Currently the scientific presentations are being compiled and will be reported on when available, however it was clear that based on the current evidence, this method is not detrimental once used in a correct manner. It is clear that any training method incorrectly used is not acceptable and that aggressive rding should be prevented and banned.
- The importance of the “Stewarding System” in the warming up arena is clear. The education of the Dressage Stewards based on the FEI Rules and the Steward manual has been implemented and neither the FEI nor the FEI Dressage Committee will tolerate abuse of any kind.
-The FEI Veterinary Committee as well as the FEI Welfare Sub-committee will continue their research on specific training methods including the ”Hyperflexion of the neck”.
- The FEI Dressage Committee would like to emphasize the importance of the articles 401.1 anD 401.3 of the FEI Dressage Rules as well as the Basic Training Scale while warming up or training, resulting in the well being of the horse.
Finally the FEI Dressage Committee would like to reiterate that this workshop was the first step, that the FEI is committed to ensuring the welfare of the horse and would urge both the media and the various elements in the sport of dressage to wait for the formal report before making further comments.
Mariette Withages-Dieltjens
Chairman
FEI Dressage Committee
I think you should take care not to misrepresent the position of the FEI on this matter. I also suggest that you should familiarize yourself with the following peer reviewed scientific journal articles on the subject, none of which have found any detriment and many of which have found benefit to both the kinematics and the stress of international calibre horses ridden in Head and Neck Position 4, (hyperflexion):
van Breda, E. (2006). A Nonnatural Head-Neck Position (Rollkur) During Training Results in Less Acute Stress in Elite, Trained, Dressage Horses. Journal of Applied Animal Welfare Science. 9:1, 59-64.
Clayton, H. (2006). Research Techniques for Studying Over-Bending (“Rollkur”). Report of the FEI Veterinary and Dressage Committees' Workshop “The use of over bending (‘Rollkur’) in FEI Competition”. Federation Equestre Internationale Lausanne, 31st Jan. p.9.
Denoix, J. (2006). Functional Anatomy and Diagnostic Imaging of The Cervical Spine. Report of the FEI Veterinary and Dressage Committees' Workshop “The use of over bending (‘Rollkur’) in FEI Competition”. Federation Equestre Internationale Lausanne, 31st Jan. p.8.
Gomez Alvarez, C.,B. Rhodin, M., Bobber, M., F., Meyer, H., Weishaupt, M., A., Johnston, C., Van Weeren, P., R. (2006). The effect of head and neck position on the thoracolumbar kinematics in the unridden horse. Equine Veterinary Journal, Supplement, 36, 445-451.
Heuschmann, G. (2006). Functional Anatomy of the Horse as it Relates to Over-Bending (“Rollkur”). Report of the FEI Veterinary and Dressage Committees' Workshop “The use of over bending (‘Rollkur’) in FEI Competition”. Federation Equestre Internationale Lausanne, 31st Jan., 6-7.
Janssen, S. (2006). The Trainer’s View on Over-Bending (“Rollkur”) as a Training Aid for Dressage Competition. Report of the FEI Veterinary and Dressage Committees' Workshop “The use of over bending (‘Rollkur’) in FEI Competition”. Federation Equestre Internationale Lausanne, 31st Jan., p. 6.
McLean, A., McGreevy, P., Leo Jeffcott, L. (2006). Equitation and Learning Theory- Positive and Negative Reinforcement. Report of the FEI Veterinary and Dressage Committees' Workshop “The use of over bending (‘Rollkur’) in FEI Competition”. Federation Equestre Internationale Lausanne, 31st Jan., p. 5.
Ődberg, F. (2006). Schooling Principles and Welfare- The Situation of “Rollkur” In this Context. Report of the FEI Veterinary and Dressage Committees' Workshop “The use of over bending (‘Rollkur’) in FEI Competition”. Federation Equestre Internationale Lausanne, 31st Jan. p.7.
Petsche, V.M., Derksen, F.J., Berney, C.E., Robinson N.E. (1995) Effect of Head Position on upper airway function in exercising horses. Equine Veterinary Journal Supplement. 18, 18-22.
Rhodin M, Gomez Alvarez CB, Bystrom A, Johnston C, van Weeren PR, Roepstorff L, Weishaupt MA (2009). The effect of different head and neck positions on the caudal back and hindlimb kinematics in the elite dressage horse at trot. Equine Veterinary Journal. 41 (3), 274-279.
Weishaupt M., Wiestner T., von Pienen K., Waldern N., Roepstorff L., van Weeren, R., Meyer, H., Johnston, C. (2006). Effect of head and neck position on vertical ground reaction forces and interlimb coordination in dressage horses ridden at walk and trot on a treadmill. Equine Exercise Physiology 7- Equine Veterinary Journal. Supplement 36, 387-392.
Welling, E., (2006). Radiological Aspects of the Cervical Region in Relation to Over-Bending ("Rollkur"). Report of the FEI Veterinary and Dressage Committees' Workshop “The use of over bending (‘Rollkur’) in FEI Competition”. Federation Equestre Internationale Lausanne, 31st Jan. p.7.
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Permalink Reply by Lallanslover on -
The FEI Veterinary Committee made a statement on their position towards the Rollkur, also called hyperflexion, at the FEI bureau meeting in Interlaken, Switzerland, April 10, 2008.
The following statement was adopted: "There are no known clinical side effects specifically arising from the use of hyperflexion, however there are serious concerns for a horse's well-being if the technique is not practiced correctly. The FEI condemns hyperflexion in any equestrian sport as an example of mental abuse. The FEI states that it does not support the practice."
It's about time the FEI got some backbone and banned the practice...
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Permalink Reply by Teddy Rekai-Nuttall on
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Once again I will reiterate that this statement is from November of 2008, so is the most current official statement, readily available from the FEI:
FEI Statement on Hyperflexion 11/11/2008
“The FEI held a successful seminar on Hyperflexion in 2006. There has been no change in the scientific evidence since that review. There are no known clinical side effects specifically arising from the use of Hyperflexion. However, there are concerns for the horses’ well-being if the technique is not practised correctly. The FEI does not permit excessive or prolonged Hyperflexion in any equestrian sport, and has a strict stewarding program to protect the performance horse in all disciplines.”
David Holmes
Executive Sports Director
The official Summary of the April 10, 2008 meeting available from the FEI makes no reference to Hyperflexion:
News from the FEI Veterinary Committee 10/04/2008
The Veterinary Committee made its report to the Bureau. The main items presented were:
TREATMENT AND ANTI-DOPING:
- the urine detection times of 13 out of the 15 substances included in the Medicine Box have been finalised;
- Risk management in connection with new substances coming to the market will continue;
- Education of riders, trainers and veterinarians as well as proactive contacts with the media will be developed;
- an electronic web-portal access for Treating Veterinarians will be developed;
- support Latin America in setting up a reference laboratory;
- The FEI Competitor Guide to Doping and Medication Control in now available in five languages medication leaflet in 5 languages (English, French, Spanish, Russian and Arabic).
HORSE MOVEMENT: facilitate the testing and certification protocol for temporary importation; increasing acceptance of the model health certificate; pro-active approach to National Federations and Organising Committees; develop contingency plans for emerging disease situation.
HYPERSENSITISATION: It was decided to carry forward the updated protocol for event checks. The pilot study on competition intensity was also to be pursued.
ENDURANCE: Research on fatigue and metabolic compromise, also in hot and humid conditions, should be continued when budgetary possible. Star system for event veterinarians should be evaluated further.
VACCINATION: Further clarification on vaccination rules was tabled.
The following main strategic goals were identified for the coming three years:
Movement of Horses: Acceptance of Testing and Certification protocol
Medication Control: Review programme funding and testing coverage
Research: Monitoring progress of associated projects (competition surfaces project)
Create dedicated web portal to provide support to treating veterinarians
Available from:
https://admin.fei.org/Athletes_And_Horses/News/Pages/summ.aspx?news...
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Permalink Reply by Samantha Acres on -
HANG ON one minute. The bearing rein was once considered absolutely fine also with regard to carriage horses, it has since been banned. It is not for the 'supporters' of a method to decide whether it is cruel or not....but for a majority.
Gerd Heuschman, a top vet in Germany has proved and shown in his book and video that Rollkur is detrimental to the horse.
Theresa Sandin shows on her website 'sustainable dressage' that it is detrimental to the horse....and there are many more I can find for you.
- the lady who said that the FEI has banned Rollkur already, has a point in that they have said that if it causes mental abuse they do not accept it...... and quite clearly it causes mental abuse in every case !!
For example take a look at the horses trained by Thomas Ritter, Philippe Karl, Zettl, Loch, Carde, Klimke etc... and then compare these harmonious horses with just about any horse in so-called 'top level' dressage today - it is so very obvious which ones are suffering mental abuse!
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Permalink Reply by Teddy Rekai-Nuttall on
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Once again please review this discussion, where we have already debunked this ill-informed statement that the FEI has banned Rollkur as mental abuse. Also please read:
van Breda, E. (2006). A Nonnatural Head-Neck Position (Rollkur) During Training Results in Less Acute Stress in Elite, Trained, Dressage Horses. Journal of Applied Animal Welfare Science. 9:1, 59-64.
Furthermore, Ms. Sandin's website is not based on either the research literature nor on her own peer-reviewed scientific research. It is an amalgam of pictures and training opinions.
Lastly, Dr. Heuschman is a very intelligent and eloquent man who has spent much time and effort on his published work, and must be commended for it. However, it is not based on the available and current peer-reviewed research literature, and until that time where he can provide the hard scientific evidence to support his scientific modeling, I think the books should be taken with a pinch of salt.
In terms of the harmonious horses and this longing for the old dressage values, just look at the fact that the top horses in Dressage and showjumping are lasting well into their very late teenage years whereas even twenty years ago this was not the case.
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Permalink Reply by Jackie Cochran on -
Decades ago we did not have good convenient worming products (remember tube worming?), colic surgery was not routine (I'm in NC and thirty years ago colic surgery was done two states away, requiring trailering the horse suffering from colic,) and veterinary medicine and drugs were NOWHERE near as sophisticated as they are now. Until you can separate the advances in veterinary medicine from all the other variables, the fact that the Rollkur horses survive into their twenties does not mean much to me. Lots of people with unhealthy habits also survive a lot longer than they did decades ago, this does not mean that these unhealthy habits have suddenly become procedures for enduring health.
I DO know after reading the classic books on riding from de la Guerniere on that until quite recently having the horse behind the bit was considered bad riding, much less riding with your horse's chin plastered to his chest. In fact de la Guerniere advocated that the shanks of the curb be REAL long (12 to 15 inches), with the far end of the shanks connected with a chain, just so that the horse could have some space to avoid the rider's hands by letting the end of the curb bit rest against his chest, which resulted in the horse being only slightly behind the bit. De la Guerniere considered the short shank curb the most severe bit he had available, just because the horse could not protect himself from harsh hands. When I see Rollkur, I think that de la Guerniere had a valid point. Now the horses have no protection.
While I have seen horses in pasture doing collected paces and some airs above the ground, I have NEVER seen a horse move for several minutes with his chin plastered to his chest. MOMENTARILY the horse, when demonstrating emotion might touch his chin to his breast. They certainly do not move like that for several minutes, probably because horses like to see where they are going.
I consider Rollkur a form of trick riding. I will never do Rollkur, I will never take lessons from a person that uses Rollkur, and I will never buy a horse that has been trained with Rollkur. The same goes for people who ride consistently behind the bit. If I ever do dressage I will do it properly and take the time needed to strengthen the muscles properly, even if it takes me a year or two longer than the people who use Rollkur.
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Permalink Reply by Mini Morgan on -
I'm afraid that if Teddy's LDR involves a frame anything like that of rollkur, I have to say that IMO it's no improvement on rollkur. Long and low is one thing, since it encourages the horse to round his back--from Teddy's description LDR has the horse going behind the vertical, and from everything I've seen over the years any time a horse goes behind the vertical, the only thing being rounded is the neck....not the back.
Dressage has pretty much deteriorated to a very sorry state. Obedience takes precedence over proper way of going/proper training. The big, fancy moving warmbloods have gorgeous front end movement no matter what you make them do with their heads and their hindquarters, and no matter if their backs are hollowed. The classical riders of yesteryear would turn over in their graves if they could see how people are riding and training now!
As far as I'm concerned there is nothing worse than getting on a horse, picking up the reins and having the horse's head disappear from sight, dropping down somewhere to the vicinity of his chest...or his knees!
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Permalink Reply by Teddy Rekai-Nuttall on
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Mini,
It is not MY LDR. I am not suggesting that I use, nor that anyone else should or shouldn't use any form of Hyperflexion. I am merely presenting the peer-reviewed scientific evidence, which suggests that there is a place for it in modern and ethical training of the horse. I am merely trying to dispel the hearsay, inference and slander which is being used in this discussion (not only on this forum). I invite you to review the research literature so that your argument against hyperflexion is founded in accepted and quantifiable data.
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Permalink Reply by Teddy Rekai-Nuttall on
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Helyn, thank you for joining this discussion. Firstly I do not think it is prudent to refer to the scientific research and findings of some of the foremost academics in the field of equine locomotion as "Naive" please refer to:
Gomez Alvarez, C.,B. Rhodin, M., Bobber, M., F., Meyer, H., Weishaupt, M., A., Johnston, C., Van Weeren, P., R. (2006). The effect of head and neck position on the thoracolumbar kinematics in the unridden horse. Equine Veterinary Journal, Supplement, 36, 445-451.
In terms of your PDF, did you in fact review the FEI veterinary symposium wherein it was presented that no observable damage to the nuchal ligament or the cervical spine has been attributed to hyperflexion:
Welling, E., (2006). Radiological Aspects of the Cervical Region in Relation to Over-Bending ("Rollkur"). Report of the FEI Veterinary and Dressage Committees' Workshop “The use of over bending (‘Rollkur’) in FEI Competition”. Federation Equestre Internationale Lausanne, 31st Jan. p.7.
The illustrations are lovely, but I feel that medical imaging is more relevant.
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Permalink Reply by Teddy Rekai-Nuttall on
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Thanks very much for approaching this discussion so well, it is the reason I take part in only this one. The only disagreement I have with you is that you can study pain, as it will elicit a higher cortisol response that can easily be measured through salivary cortisol testing. You can then use set scientific protocol to study significant differences in salivary cortisol concentration between HNPs (head and neck positions).
Also I worry that in referring to it as an avoidance of pain we are getting onto a track that would suggest that all riding is torture as it is based on negative reinforcement, but that is a whole other bag of fish.
I am so glad to hear an agreement from your side that more testing is needed before we can concisely say one way or the other is better.
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