Videos of my girls

I hope I put this in the right place..?

Here are links to the videos of my girls.. I'm no videographer so forgive my unsteady hand & camera-twisting.:)

Yes, I know they're a little pudgy (more so Donoma than Kai) and it just rained here, so forgive their scruffiness:) (Doesn't help that Donoma won't let me touch her to groom!)

Donoma is the red girl, Kai is the chocolate. Pictures and videos just can't do them justice.. They're beautiful! (I'm sure you all feel the same way about yours!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEdEM3-fNIk

They're just eating in these videos--This is the only time I can get close to Donoma a lot of the time. She will come up to me sometimes (without treats) but has only let me touch her twice (on her head only, and she looks frightened).

Kai is funny. She loves us being around but her ears stay back a lot. Jennifer's explanation of "interrested" seems right a lot of the time. Not sure why they're back in this though.. She is a SWEETHEART. When I come, she lowers her head and bobs it a little--she looks like she's saying "Oh boy oh boy oh boy.." Precious:) I just wanted to be fair and give her a little camera time. Haha:)Now Donoma.. This girl is an enigma to me, mostly because of the huge change in her personality. That aside, I'm trying to understand her as she is now, not before she changed..

What does the movement at (I think) :25 and :32 mean?

I read from Linda Tellington-Jones that a horse that has their ears lopped (to the sides) is a good, dependable horse. And I really, really believe she IS! I just have to let her know she can trust me with it.. Somehow.. Her ears are back and her expression seems like "leave me alone!". She keeps her head pointed in the opposite direction of me (a calming signal, I think..). I am 2-3 feet away from her shoulder, not positioned facing directly at her. She definitely pays attention to what I'm doing, but is reacting less, which is encouraging.. She JERKS her food away when taking some to chew..

At :48, she tries to nip at me, then her ears go back some more. I mentioned before that she doesn't end up biting--I think she's learned that I am on-guard and that I won't let her actually BITE me, but she tests that from time to time. I wasn't doing anything at the time she tried to nip.. Just hanging out. I responded with a noise--sounded like a firm, quick "aat aat", and then I acted like nothing happened after that. No reprimands or anything. She looks upset and agitated to me.. She paws the ground once before long. I pan around to Kai and she looks like she's thinking "what is she DOING?" Hears something my husband's doing (one ear perks up a bit) then whatever.. Pan back to D and she looks a little calmer than before since I was paying attention to Kai instead.. Does the head flick thing again..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JRhkAmCxwE

D looks a tad pissy after I reach down to get some hay but she has no problem eating ANYTHING out of my hands. Looks much more interested in and less afraid of me.. Turns head away again once she gets a mouthful.. Keeps an ear on me, an ear on whatever husband's doing at this point.. He made a loud noise and they bolted.

So what do you think of their actions in these??

Also, I was curious.. D used to be the leader (at their previous home) and Kai was the low girl on the totem pole. Now, Kai is the "dominant" one (D follows her almost everywhere, Kai eats first, D gets "corrected" all the time by Kai..) but I'd be surprised if D didn't end up the leader once she settles down some.. She's braver and more mellow most of the time when loud noises and stuff happened.. ..Except for the time she jumped the fence in to the dog run, of course..

But anyways, Kai will sometimes let Donoma come sniff us and check us out and just stay behind her, but still watches her.. It's like she's making sure D doesn't give us any attitude, and Kai will bite and chase her off, sometimes even walk her around for a while, if D pins her ears at us or anything--Not ALL the time, but sometimes.. Could Kai be putting D in place for giving us attitude? Or is it probably just something between the two of them that Kai didn't like?

I'm sorry for all the questions.. Thank you all SO, SO much for helping us new folks through this.. I don't know anyone here that has the same views that I do on how they should be "trained" and treated so ya'll are really a life and relationship saver... <3

PS--Just for comparison, I included photos of the girls before they came here.. See how much more relaxed D looks? And how much more rigid Kai looks?

The gray girl is a Thoroughbred cross.. She was BOSSY to Kai, but D always put her in her place--VERY respectfully and kindly though. She's an AMAZING girl, this Donoma:)

Attachments:

Red girl 5.JPG, 314 KB
Bay girl 2.JPG, 310 KB
Red girl 2.JPG, 358 KB

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Megan Hammock on October 11, 2010 at 1:56pm

I still haven't gotten a video because our dogs & goat escaped their paddock over the weekend. Much of our time was spent tracking them down, making signs and posting them.. (We found our pups but not our goat yet)

BUT--here's the cool thing I mentioned..
I was rubbing Kai, the sweetheart, down and Donoma, the skittish one, finally got jealous.. She came and put her nose on my hand, asking me to pet her!
I pet her for a bit and stopped (so I wouldn't overload and scare her--that's when she nips) and she put her nose on my hand for more petting, at least 5 times!! SUCCESS!!

She is still nervous and BOY did she try to bite me AND my friend yesterday when we were petting her! PHEW! Scaaaared us!
BUT.. She is letting us pet her more and more.. Some times are better than others, of course.

Also, I worked with Kai on getting a saddle blanket on--I tried out what I saw on a video of yours, and she was pretty receptive.. Up to a point. I think it'll just take some time:)

I really can't tell you how grateful we are for your wisdom and willingness to share.. Especially since your methods are ones we can agree with!!

Permalink Reply by Ellen Ofstad on October 11, 2010 at 4:59pm

I sure hope you find your goat, soon.

Sounds like you are making great progress with the horses!
I would ease back on the petting a little, try to figure out what and where she likes it (if she bites, it indicates that she isn't loving it, that would be my guess… ) and stick to what she likes for now. I would also use treats and every other good association I could think of. How many ways can you make being with you a great time for her?

Back off when you see their tension building, otherwise you are making it a negative experience rather than a positive one.

Don't worry about time… don't get fixated on a goal. If your only agenda is to have a session with your horses that is enjoyable and pleasant for both of you, you will have only good days, and that seems to me to already BE at the very place you want to be, wouldn't you agree?

A little thought experiment for you…

Think of it this way:

If everything was perfect already; how would you feel when you were with the horses?
Happy? relaxed? a little in love with them?

I am not talking about what you could DO with them, but how it would make you FEEL when you did whatever with them.

Is there any reason why you can't feel that way right now? just with how they are? without trying to change anything?

The only reason for you to try to change anything (like with the skittish one) is to help HER feel better, and if you have that as your agenda, you will know where to stop and when to move on.

If everything was already perfect, it would be a bit boring. The fun is in the development, in the interaction and the feeling that comes when one makes progress, it's rarely in the progress itself. There is no progress left when it's perfect… :)

We need to have something to focus on, to aim for, a reason for interacting, in order to get that good feeling of progress, and if we make small tiny goals with buckets of time we get to have that feeling all the time compared to those who sets the bar for success very high.

On the other hand: If that focus on achievement becomes to great we miss out on the good stuff right now. Too many people think that they would be happy if their horse would only… do this… and when they do, the goal has changed to something else. Always thinking that the happiness is something they can achieve through training the horse to do this or that. If they could enjoy the process instead, every little step along the way, the time factor goes away, and they can truly enjoy the moment.

And I think that is important for our horses, they truly don't have an agenda as far as their interaction with us. They can enjoy spending time with us, or not, but that is mainly up to us and how we present things to them I think.

I am getting carried away here:)
I am NOT indicating that you are overly goal oriented, I am talking on a general basis here. I think, from what you are saying, that you are doing well with your horses. At the same time, it's human nature to get a bit ahead of ourselves, so this is a reminder to us all.

For me personally, I want to have fun with my horses.
If I don't feel that way when working with a horse, I can just check the mirror to find the cause; when I let my ego get in the way… or I start thinking that we should "get further" - goal orientation that for some reason has made me think that I would be happier if I could do something that I can't at the moment. Or, if I start thinking that time is of importance, that an hours spent with the horse doing something is of less value than an other hour spent doing something else (that I hadn't planned for).

Whenever EGO, TIME & GOALS are out of my system I have a great time with horses every single time. The funny thing is that if those things had been of importance at that time, I would have seen that I accomplish them better by ignoring them.

A medal to all that follows my train of thoughts here! LOL

Permalink Reply by Megan Hammock on November 17, 2010 at 11:20am

Feeling a bit in a hole as far as "working" well with my girls.. This was a great reminder..

Oh, where to go from here..! :P

Permalink Reply by Ellen Ofstad on September 30, 2010 at 8:08am

On a not-at-all serious note here... :)
Just found a clip that I mixed together a long time ago. I know a lot of people have issues about horses and food, and I was thinking that a lot of the training done here is done with food as a rewards and how that seems to some. Then I was watching "Little shop of horrors" and thought it would make a great song against clickertraining :)

Off topic and just goofing off here...

Permalink Reply by Megan Hammock on September 30, 2010 at 10:14am

That cracked me up! I LOVE IT! They didn't seem too aggressive about treats, either..
Are they all yours? They are GORGEOUS.

You've got me thinking now, wondering if Donoma isn't as much being aggressive about treats.. I wonder if it's more of a fear of getting that close to me for that long.. That could make sense.. I just wish she wouldn't NIP!! Silly girl..

Permalink Reply by Ellen Ofstad on September 30, 2010 at 12:09pm

Glad you enjoyed it! I had fun making it. Apart from the two first horses, they belong to some of my students, the rest are mine... Or rather were, the youngsters are sold now.
They are not aggressive about food and we have been feeding them by hand since they were babies, if horses gets aggressive or nippy arund food it's not due to the hand feeding in my opinion, but it does require some rules of course (like all training does).

If you get around to filming, include some where you use treats, maybe I can give you some help with the nipping. I can teach you a simple way to teach her manners around food, but need to see what she does first :)

No hurry though, I am going to France this Saturday and will be gone for ten days, so I probably can't give you feedback before I come home anyway...

Permalink Reply by Jennifer Lamm on October 5, 2010 at 12:22pm

Good video.. you always seem to be having fun!! I hope I'm as confident as you some day so I can play better..... I feel kind of bad that I used to push my horses out of my space so much.... ho hum.... at least I have more time to invite them in for play..... your horses are so beautiful....:)

Permalink Reply by Ellen Ofstad on September 24, 2010 at 8:04pm

nice horses, but I really can't comment much more than that. The problem isn't the camera angle, but that you are filming yourself. With camera in hand you can't move normally, or look normal to your horses, and I can't see your side of the interaction. Body language is a visual thing and it's only communication if you both are a part of it :)
Could you film again, while you are doing something with them, like trying to touch the red one, and get your husband to film?

Permalink Reply by Jennifer Lamm on September 25, 2010 at 12:07pm

that is so true.... plus when I have my camera in hand my shy horse won't do anything, LOL... he is so timid around a camera... isn't that interesting? of course Oliver wants to sniff it and eat it.