A "Forward" Seat for Dressage--According to Steinbrecht

While reading Gustav Steinbrecht's "The Gymnasium of the Horse" I was impressed that he did not seem to think that the "classical" dressage seat was suitable for riding all horses all the time. As a Forward Seat rider I was particularly impressed by Steinbrecht's "forward" seat (which he calls the "crotch seat") and how much it resembles the Forward Seat for Slow Equitation (as described in my blog www.barnmice.com//the-forward-seat-position-for) .

I found several passages in Steinbrecht's book describing the position and uses of the "crotch" seat in his dressage method.

"With a green horse, where the movements are still irregular and restricted and do not yet allow the rider to take a light and steady posture with the resulting light and steady hands, it is the trainer's main skill to nevertheless use his soft and elastic seat to produce a light and steady hand. However, to achieve this, he must often depart from the regularly accepted body posture and hand position." (page 25)

"...when riding a horse in its natural carriage at free gaits, it will be more appropriate to ride with short stirrups, not only because the rider will require more support from the stirrups in view of his own position and to overcome the excess weight of the horse on the forehand, but also because the extended gaits reduce the volume of the (horse's) body." (page 33)

"Such work is tiring and hard as long as the horse is unable to flex its lowered hind legs with ease and endurance. The horse's movements at this stage of training, particularly at the trot, are often so bouncy that the rider is forced to relinquish some support from his seat bones in order to absorb more of the shocks with his crotch." (page 35)

"...if the horse carries itself on its shoulders, the rider can increase the horse's speed by by leaning forward and following with his body." (page 36)

Also on page 36, while explaining that the crotch seat was different from the hunting seat used at that time (before Caprilli's Forward Seat) he says "The crotch seat of a trainer...has the purpose of displacing the center of gravity forward on horses having weak hindquarters or kidneys so as to take the weight off these parts without influencing the thrust of the hind legs and giving the horse the support of a firm contact...in the crotch seat the hips must be pushed forward and the back tensioned the more the body leans forward. In the seat the rider more or less loses support from his seat bones and this support must be replaced in part by greater tension in the upper body and in part by his weight in the stirrups."

"Initially it is only important to develop thrust and thus the willingness of the horse to move forward in its quite natural carriage." (page 67)

"...the rider should make his weight as light and comfortable as possible for the horse by bringing his seat into coincidence with the horse's center of gravity. Since the center of gravity is initially situated more of less forward, the rider should position himself likewise with a forward slant thus not only furthering the thrust of the hind legs but also ameliorating the shocks generated between rider and horse by putting his weight strongly into the stirrups and sitting in a light crotch seat. The rider should keep his reins relatively short...The shorter reins are necessary to give the rider in his forward position the necessary room between hands and body for pulling the reins and to be able to put his hands low so as to act quickly and reliably on the still awkward horse." (page 68)

And finally he says "He (the rider) will lean forward to make it easier for reluctant horses to move forward, to soften hard shocks and bumps, and to protect soft or sensitive backs." (page 74)

So Steinbrecht describes a seat with shorter stirrup leathers, weight in the stirrups, moving the rider's seat forward in the saddle, leaning forward, taking weight off the seat bones, and moving the hands forward. He described this seat being used on free striding horses, on green horses, on horses with weak backs, to increase the horse's speed, and on horses which have not lowered their croups by flexing their hind legs. It sure sounds like a forward seat to me! Of course when the horse achieves collection Steinbrecht moves back to the classical dressage seat that is suitable for collected work.

It makes me wonder, was Caprilli familiar with Steinbrecht's book? It came out before Caprilli started working out his Forward method, which could be seen as a logical extension of the crotch seat adapted to riding horses cross country and jumping at a gallop, with the seat completely out of the saddle. I guess I will never know, but Steinbrecht's crotch seat sounds a lot more like Caprilli's forward seat than does Sloan's modern horse racing seat which some people claim inspired Caprilli.

Have a great ride!

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Comment by Jackie Cochran on December 14, 2010 at 6:41pm: Thanks for the comment Jan!
I have found the first part of Steinbrecht's book eminently readable, especially being translated from German. He has good logic chains in his book.
The main reason that I am stopping where I have is that I DO NOT HAVE A GOOD SENSE OF BALANCE, and Steinbrecht so emphasized the necessity of balance to ride in an effective dressage seat. The few times I tried the "open" seat I ended up on the ground as my horse disappeared out from under me, but then that horse did have a sense of humor. That was long ago, and I had not read Steinbrecht back then, but I was working on relaxing my whole leg out on the trail since I did not have access to a ring back then, balancing on my seat bones with my legs hanging loosely, so relaxing until---WHAM! (yes, my feet were in the stirrups.)
I am trying a new supplement with Mia as the owner of the stable swears by it. Once it gets warm enough to ride again I will evaluate, and if she travels sound enough I will go on and read Steinbrechts chapters on two-track work. I would like to do a shoulder-in successfully sometime in my life!!! Ah, for weather where it is over freezing in the morning, 15 F is a bit too cold for me.

Comment by Jan Jollymour on December 14, 2010 at 3:14pm: Hi, Ashley:

Steinbrecht is one of the "bibles" for dressage trainers/coaches/riders/judges. He's a bit of a tough slog, given that the book is written in very flowery 19th century language, but the information is invaluable, and wonderfully presented.

Jackie: when you have time, read past page 93. You will enjoy the rest of it, and your riding career might not end with a 30 year old spavined mare. I realize that you are dealing with MS, but one never knows what opportunities might present themselves....

Comment by Ashley on December 12, 2010 at 8:24pm: Perhaps I'll have to stick it on my Christmas/birthday list. Thanks :)

I think it's great that you not only don't let your "disability" get in the way of what you love, but you're very active and informed on what is best for your horse and the mechanics of riding. Kudos ;)

I don't currently ride at all, and I haven't ridden dressage in the past (only had means to ride western) but I have always had a very deep interest in dressage and what it can do for horse and rider. Even if one's horse is meant to be an Olympic stadium jumper, or a Triple Crown Winner, I think dressage is a basic necessity in order to create balance and even development throughout the horse and rider.

Anyway, thanks again for the post, and I'll check out your other blog from last week. :) Ride on!

Comment by Jackie Cochran on December 12, 2010 at 7:20pm: I ordered mine through amazon.com.. It is in paperback and cost $39.95 USD new. The used copies are more expensive.

I am also into the "physics of riding, which is why I ride Forward Seat. I am disabled with Multiple Sclerosis, but I find the most security on horseback in the modern Forward Seat as I ride united with the motion of my horse.

You might also be interested in my blog from last week, A Tale of Two Spines, which is also about some of what Gustav Steinbrecht has to say about the dressage seat.

If you ride dressage you will LOVE Steinbrecht. He discusses everything clearly and actually tells you how to accomplish the movements, and why you need to use the aids he discusses. I stopped reading at page 93 because the main horse I'm riding is a spavined, almost 30 year old mare and I do not dare try to ride her beyond the basic modern Forward Seat.

Comment by Ashley on December 12, 2010 at 4:37pm: Jackie - This is a great post you've contributed. I'm really rather interested in reading this book. I find that obviously seat and legs are probably two of the biggest aids we can give our horses, and it's intriguing to see different opinions on what physically allows the horse to move more appropriately according to what we're asking. I'm very into the whole "physics" side (I guess you could say) of the horse and it's movement, as well as adding a rider on top. Where did you pick this book up at? I'd love to give it a go :)

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