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Horse Drawn Carriage Accident in NY
I realize that this video has been made for maximum dramatic effect, but I was in NY this summer throughout August and I have to tell everyone that those horses are dragging around those carriages in the heat with exhaust fumes on their faces from morning until night.
This is an antiquated form of "entertainment" and there is no reason in the world horses need to be pulling carriages full of tourists through urban streets.
An unusually strong post coming from me, but I couldn't live with myself if I didn't share my thoughts on this.
Video: NY carriage accident fuels campaign for ban
September 21, 2009
An accident involving a taxi and one of New York's horse-drawn carriages has added more fuel to a campaign to have them banned.
People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (Peta) has long argued for a ban, saying it is not good for the horses and dangerous, given the volume of traffic.
Peta reports that the taxi lost control and hit the horse-drawn carriage, a hansom cab, tossing the driver on to the street. The horse, named Blackie, broke free of the carriage and ran at least two blocks before being captured. The horse was taken to Clinton Park stables on 52nd Street. Blackie was understood not to be injured.
The taxi driver and carriage driver were taken to hospital.
Donny Moss, the director of a documentary called Blinders, about the New York carriage horse industry, was able to get footage of the accident's aftermath.
This is an antiquated form of "entertainment" and there is no reason in the world horses need to be pulling carriages full of tourists through urban streets.
An unusually strong post coming from me, but I couldn't live with myself if I didn't share my thoughts on this.
Video: NY carriage accident fuels campaign for ban
September 21, 2009
An accident involving a taxi and one of New York's horse-drawn carriages has added more fuel to a campaign to have them banned.
People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (Peta) has long argued for a ban, saying it is not good for the horses and dangerous, given the volume of traffic.
Peta reports that the taxi lost control and hit the horse-drawn carriage, a hansom cab, tossing the driver on to the street. The horse, named Blackie, broke free of the carriage and ran at least two blocks before being captured. The horse was taken to Clinton Park stables on 52nd Street. Blackie was understood not to be injured.
The taxi driver and carriage driver were taken to hospital.
Donny Moss, the director of a documentary called Blinders, about the New York carriage horse industry, was able to get footage of the accident's aftermath.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Terri Bowhey on
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The pictures tell the story and there is probably nothing else to be said, but I appreciate you sharing this....now to me this is a very important post....thank you
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Permalink Reply by Fiona Hill on
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Wow. Horrific.
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Permalink Reply by Mary Bargerstock on
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I have felt very strongly about not supporting this industry for a long time. Probably more then 10 years. It is done even in Atlanta and Helen in Georgia. I have been in Helen in the summer when the temps are close to 100 degrees and these poor horses are out in the sun lugging ignorant people around who have no clue that they are contributing to the abuse of these magnificent animals. I have gone up to the drivers and asked if the horses have been given water. It is barbaric in my opionion.
There have been multiple accidents in New York City sometimes ending in the death of the horse like the mare last year that got so frightened that she ran into a tree and broke her neck. It breaks my heart.
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Permalink Reply by Lisa Rowlands on
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In Montreal we have the Caleche horses,there is absolutely no reason for horses to be in the middle of congested polluted cities.The horses that are in Montreal are often used until their mid twenties or older and shipped for slaughter at the end of their use in the industry.The Refuge has a policy of immediately accepting and caleche horse as soon as the owner is willing to let the horse go,we have a number of wonderful old horses,mainly belgians,who are now enjoying a happy retirement in the country.The number of Caleche licenses is being reduced,so hopefully this industry will soon be a relic of the past.
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Permalink Reply by Michaleen on
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Hi Barbara....I hope you don't mind if I repost what I said in the other forum here....
To Terri, Fiona, Mary, Lisa, and anyone else out there - here's the other side of the story:
I've been in the NYC carriage industry for almost 30 years.
We might possibly be the most misunderstood group of 'animal people' in the world - or at least, it feels like that sometimes. It is especially wounding and frustrating to me to be misunderstood or unfairly judged by actual horse people (which, I might add, only happens online - horse people that approach us and see our horses in person very rarely have any gripes.)
So, I'd like to tell you a little bit about us. Just gonna jump right in with something I wrote not too long ago on another forum, a non-horse forum, so please excuse it if I cover familiar ground or seem pedantic.
Our safety record is STELLAR - 68 carriages operating approx 300 days a year /26 years = over 2 MILLION trips in traffic back and forth to the stables. (this does NOT even include all of the actual rides done!)
We have had THREE equine fatalities due to traffic accidents in those 26 years.
NO equine pursuit can claim a similar ratio (500 horses died on racetracks just since the Kentucky Derby last year - hell, 100 HUMANS were hit by cars and killed in 2008 in NYC alone)
While each of the three horse deaths was a tragedy (I knew each one - Chester ‘85, Tony ‘90, and Spotty ‘07), there is nothing in life with no risk, & as you know, certainly not in human/horse activities. Many, many more horses are injured or killed in eventing, jumping, racing, polo, etc. The humaniacs would eradicate all horses in order to eradicate all risk - something I do believe they could live with, & indeed, it’s something that many of them actively seek. They drag out the same ghoulish pics from these accidents on every website & at every demonstration, sometimes even using pictures of dead or injured horses from other parts of the country and saying they were in NYC!
Anybody hell-bent on putting carriages out of business should hop on down to the auction & buy a slaughter-bound horse and care for it for the rest of its natural life. That would actually be doing something to help the horses, not hurt them.
The epidemic of abandoned horses across the country is due to what is being called a “perfect storm” of a slow economy, highfeed prices, & (arguably) the recent national outlawing of slaughterhouses. This is a mammoth crisis - 1000s of horses being left to waste away in fields & paddocks, or surrendered to over-crowded rescues. Closing down a business where horses lead content & exceedingly reasonable existences will only ADD to this problem.
I'm sure you'll agree that a well-loved, cared-for horse with a job is a lucky horse - and I'm here to tell you that our horses fit that description.
Unfortunately for us and our horses here in NYC, we are one of the humaniacs’ primo targets, as we fit the bill perfectly: a small, high-profile industry with very limited resources. You can see what an excellent opportunity our industry not only for misguided people, but for targeted fundraising by large AR groups like PETA.
Many of the AR people would rather see a horse dead than have a job. To them, a carriage horse doing what it was bred to do, and living a comfortable, content existence alongside his driver, is no different from Michael Vick and a pile of mutilated fighting dogs or undercover horror videos revealing grotesque cruelties at factory farms.
Indeed, humaniacs have made public statements comparing the carriage horse trade to the enslavement of people of African descent, and the Holocaust of the Jewish people during WWII.
Can any of you imagine what it is like for someone like me - a lifelong horse person, dedicated to my horses in every way - to be maligned and vilified like this? Even if you are only a pet owner - imagine someone constantly lying and distorting how you treat your pet, and then going public with it.
There are no horse-torturing monsters in our business, no matter what any of them say.
And while everyone is entitled to their own opinion, they are not entitled to their own facts.
The welfare of the horses is what the decent-minded, casual observer is truly interested in, and for good reason. The horse-drawn carriages are a New York City icon; they are ambassadors to our visitors, and the horses themselves are working animals that are entitled to proper care and good handling.
Fortunately, our record reflects exactly that. Our horses lead exceedingly reasonable and content lives. They each receive a superior, formulated diet, occupy roomy box stalls, receive vet & farrier care, and are groomed and bathed regularly. This amounts to food, shelter, and medical care - which many CHILDREN in this city do not have.
Beyond these basics, they are - contrary to what the ARs would have you believe - loved by their owners/drivers; they receive affection, treats, and human interaction everyday, not to mention the attention from passer-by.
Every stable has a sprinkler system in case of fire, and every stable has 24/7 stablemen. We are overseen by 5 city agencies, and not one WEEK goes by (and sometimes, day) that our horses are not checked by the ASPCA or the Dept of Health. (Let’s see Child Protective Services match that record)
All horses are shod with either borium or Drilltex, or rubber, if they go well in it. The horses receive rotation turnout several times a year on farms in both Upstate NY and PA.
When the time comes, we work VERY hard to retire them to loving, forever homes; some of the owners retire them themselves on privately owned land. I personally have retired 3 horses, one of which is still living the life of Riley after being retired 6 years ago in South Jersey at a bank president’s home.
I'll be glad to answer any questions anyone has.
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Permalink Reply by Barbara F. on
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Thanks for the reply Michaleen,
It's always important to think about a different point of view!
As you know, I still object to the carriage horses in NY or on any busy urban streets, but I am glad to be educated on your point of view.
By the way, I watched the video, and I thought two things:
1. They should stop yelling at that kid.
2. After the heat of the moment had passed, I'll bet those protesters did succeed in getting their point across. That sign in particular was quite effective visually and I'm not sure how many New Yorkers are crazy about those carriages (the few I know don't like them, but I don't exactly have a proper survey to go by). It would be interesting to take some sort of poll and I'm surprised it hasn't been done.
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Permalink Reply by Jackie Cochran on
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I agree with you. While NYC may not be the BEST area for a horse, I've seen worse out in the countryside. I congratulate you for taking such good care of your horses.
I do not think that the animal rights activists will be content until every domesticated species goes EXTINCT. Look at the problems of the US wild horses, it seems like everybody wants to use the land the horses live on. What do the animal rights activists think we should do with the horses? The horses are not going to disappear into thin air. Either the horses are lucky enough to be domesticated or they get pushed back into worse and worse land (desert) until they starve or die of thirst. If I was a horse I know what I would prefer--working for you!
I am old school. I think that each horse should make a contribution to society, through work, play, or companionship. I think that many horses prefer having a job so long they are treated humanely, since it is impossible to roam free over good land any more.
When I lived in South America 50 years ago there were A LOT of horses working in the cities, pulling carts full of all types of stuff. The city horses I've seen in the USA look better taken care of, better fed, and happier with their work. People forget about the human-equine bond that can come from working together for hours. In a more humane society, like ours, the city working horses have it pretty good, and LOTS of people see them daily at work and are quite willing to report any abuse.
Keep up the good work. You have my support. The working horses I've seen in NYC might have looked bored, but they did not look abused.
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Thank you Michaleen....I appreciate your thoughts and all of your information. And thanks for reminding me to "remember" :)
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In New York,your horses are given much better care than what they are given here.Unfortunately in Montreal there are very few laws governing the care the horses are given and those that exist are rarely enforced.It is more often the drivers of the caleches who actually care for them and are genuinely concerned for their welfare that will contact the Refuge about retirement after the horse becomes too old or unsound for use,the owners generally prefer to send to slaughter for that last four or five hundred meat price.The final decision is the owners obviously.I understand a horse working in the city is not always mistreated,but the horses I have seen either working in Montreal or at retirement really do not receive the care they should.I am not in any way saying every horse in every carriage industry is cruely treated.
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I am glad that you and some of your fellow carriage horsemen take such good care of your horses. I agree with a lot of your points but there are some unsavory carriage horsemen that don't take such good care of their horses and those people are the ones I am against. I know that carriage operators in NYC are strictly monitored but the same can't be said for other parts of the country where horses are just viewed as livestock and used as a means to make money. I can tell you that some carriage horses in Georgia are not given the kind of care you give your horses. Yes, horses need a job and God Bless you for giving them a purpose and a good home.
I also don't like or agree with PETA types. I feel their are manipulative as you pointed out and are just a different kind of terrorists.
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Permalink Reply by Jess Brown on
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It's very easy to let ourselves get caught up in the righteous passion of indignence, especially when it seems our favorite animals are being mistreated. However, this righteous fervor clouds our objective, more logical reasoning. It is just as easy to respond with anger when such judgement is aimed towards ourselves, so I'd like to applaud you Michaleen for presenting such a detailed, factual argument free of bitterness or accusations.
Once again, radical "animal rights" groups are being short-sighted and simplistic. Issues are often more complex than they first seem, and "liberating" the poor, abused animal can have a negative effect for all involved, as one animal rights group in England discovered: http://www.snopes.com/critters/crusader/minks.asp
One has to remember that it is in carriage drivers' best interests to have healthy, happy horses because they cast the carriage in the best possible light, which attracts customers. Even non-horsey people can recognize the difference in a pretty, well looked-after horse and an abused nag. In such a public spotlight like NYC, it would be exceedingly rare for an abused carriage horse to go unreported. Bottom line, a healthy, happy carriage horse makes money. Even drivers who couldn't care less about horses have incentive to take proper care of them. Of course there are bad apples who do not care for their horses like they should, and get away with it. I have never been to Canada, but it sounds from the posts as though there is not sufficient oversight to prevent too many cases of just that from happening, just as attitudes and oversight vary across the States. I am a huge believer in lots of oversight for businesses such as these, and am very pleased to hear that NYC is constantly checking up on its carriage horses. Instead of banning the industry in cities like Montreal and relegating the horses to an unknown fate, why not push for more legislation and oversight? Should we shut down all equine activities because they have a few bad apples who abuse horses?
Everyone is up in arms that these horses are being exploited for money at their seeming detriment, but what about the racing industry? Very young horses asked to compete at an unbelievably high level, exposing them to all kinds of potential for injury and death. Michaleen quoted a death total of 500 in less than a year. Though I don't know where her statistics are from, the number does not seem extraordinary. Though a quality race horse probaby has more spent on it in one month than I've seen in my entire life, incredible demands are put on them. We have to remember that the people with the money in the horse racing industry are in it for just that: money. The owners rarely have much to do with the horse itself. When the horses are done with their career, their owners decide their fate. If they were successful and can make them even more money through breeding, they could lead a cushy, laid back life. Only a few horses can be so successful though. What happens to the rest of the horses? I'm willing to bet that the majority of people on this board know of someone who has rescued and retrained an OTTB. Yet the carriage horses usually have a bond with the owner who decides their fate when they are ready to retire. How many people know someone who has rescued and retrained a carriage horse? By the logic people are presenting to ban carriage rides in cities, racing has much more cause to be banned.
I was horrified by a horse having to endure such an experience, indeed such a life, until I calmed down and realized not only was I being irrational, but even hypocritical. I'm an eventer. When I jump, I must protect my horse's legs because of the inherent risks and injuries associated with what I ask him to do. What protections must a carriage horse wear because of the things it is asked to do? I trailride through the Colorado mountains, where the horse is exposed to not only very uneven ground which could cause injury, but bears, mountain lions, and the possibility of having a medical emergency far from aid. Am I abusing horses? Should eventing and trailriding industries be shut down?
There are inherent risks in ANY equine activity. While that certainly does not mean we should accept every risk as unavoidable, we cannot logically claim that the carriage horse industry should be shut down because it could cause injury. When there are abuses, they must be dealt with. However, in the case of NYC, it seems that people are jumping to unsupported conclusions and not thinking rationally. While we're all guilty of it from time to time, remember that there are always two sides to a story, and rarely is something as simplistic as we first perceive.
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and wow that was really really long, I apologize for droning....
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