Bitten!

Not so much to do with body language per-se.. But I've come to value ya'll's opinion and wanted to know your thoughts on this:

I was giving Kai scratches the other day on both sides of her neck. She usually loves it, but has been showing more attitude lately. Seems like she's tried to push me around.

Anyways, as I was scratching her, she just reached over quickly and bit my arm! It didn't hurt, but it may have been because I was so surprised--She has never nipped at me before.

I had been calmly looking for any signals that she may had been uncomfortable, upset, enjoying herself, etc. but she kept a pretty neutral demeanor (I must have missed something?).

Once she bit, I didn't panick, it didn't scare me, but it did surprise me. I didn't jerk back, scream, nothing. I said "NO" very firmly and stepped aggressively toward her, but only did that for a second or two. She was surprised that I reacted like that and swiveled her body around very quickly (fled), but immediately came back very close to me, put her head down a little lower than waste-level, and seemed to have a "I'm sorry I was nasty.." attitude after that. As soon as she fled, I started acting like nothing ever happened.

She seems to be less snyde to us both now, so I'm wondering if it might've started registering that things like that won't be tolerated?? She still has a bit of an attitude of "I don't have to if I don't want to"..

Did I handle that properly, and what can I do to soften up her thoughts and whatnot toward us?

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Frank Martinez on March 8, 2011 at 11:21am

Being far from "expert", let me suggest you use "quit" versus "no". "No" sounds too much like "whoa". It works for me. And has for quite a while. IMO your horse may have been testing you. Of course, biting can become serious in a flash. It's a good thing to look out for your own safety first. The fact that you didn't panic says you had control at least in your self. You may have conveyed that to your horse without any physical connection to him during the incident. To borrow a phrase, she did "re-join up" with you which is a good thing, I believe. Did you reward her action? I've always been in favor of the soft approach - walk slow, talk low.

Permalink Reply by Megan Hammock on March 8, 2011 at 12:49pm

That was my suspicion, that silly girl! It was either that, or she just plain out doesn't like me. Haha:) She has only been getting sassy with me since she started feeling that her "dominance" was being challenged.. And you've probably read what Ellen was saying about there being a difference between dominant and being a leader--Yeah, Kai's NOT a leader! And she doesn't like it when she feels like someone else IS! I just have no clue how to get her to feel less of a need to act dominant??

That is REALLY awesome though--I didn't think about her coming back to me like that as being "join-up"!! WOW! What exactly do you think/feel classifies an event as a "join-up", if I may ask? Is it when they voluntarily come to spend time with you with no aids? That really is exciting though--Kai's always been a sweet horse but definitely has some dominance lust. Haha:)

Thinking back on it, I think I used my "No-No Noise", not the word "no".. My noise is basically a pronounced, sharp and quick "AH AH".. Hopefully that's acceptible in the horse world? :) That is a good thought though.. I have definitely used the word "no" in other less important (to me) circumstances.. But I can see how even that could be confusing.. I'm glad you said it:)

No, unfortunately, I didn't think to reward her afterward. I think I was too busy trying to figure out what caused her to bite me. I should have tried harder to stay in the moment, perhaps?

Good stuff, Frank--Thank you so much for your input!!

Permalink Reply by Frank Martinez on March 8, 2011 at 5:05pm

Megan,

You're very welcome!

Paraphrasing Monty Roberts, "Join-Up happens when a horse decides to be with you because he wants to; not because he has to. Needless to say, there's much more to it than that! For a much better treatment than I can ever give it, you might consider getting his book, "From My Hands To Yours". There is an extensive chapter on Join-Up, with clear illustrations of this, and other of his concepts.

Permalink Reply by Shiny Fluff on March 8, 2011 at 11:21am

My horse nipped me the other day too under similar circumstances.....

Permalink Reply by Megan Hammock on March 8, 2011 at 12:50pm

Cheeky critters! I hope you're OK? Assuming that's your horse in the picture.. Sweet face:)

Permalink Reply by Jennifer Lamm on March 8, 2011 at 11:29am

I'm sorry you got bit... I am not allowed to really scratch or pet my horse because he is very mouthy...... and might escalate into biting...... I hope you get the advice you need and stay safe..... :)

Permalink Reply by Megan Hammock on March 8, 2011 at 1:00pm

Is Oliver the nipper?:) Spunky boy! I did read something in Linda Tellington's stuff that may or may not help--She said that with mouthy horses, it's good to mess with their muzzles a lot when they try to bite and stuff.. Obviously feel out what's safe for you--You know your boys:) But she was saying that, since their attempt to spook you off or get you away doesn't work but ends up getting their mouth messed with, they figure out that biting is obsolete..

My girls aren't very mouthy.. Donoma used to act like she was going to bite a lot, but she was usually just bluffing because she was nervous. Kai has NEVER even TRIED to nip before, so man, that caught me off guard!! That was part of why I didn't think putting my hands on her mouth would help.. Frank mentioned that he thought she was probably testing me, and I felt the same way in the moment.. Glad to know I didn't just needlessly scare the crap out of her. Haha:)

How are your boys doing!?

Permalink Reply by Jennifer Lamm on March 8, 2011 at 4:27pm

I carry a crop and ask Oliver not to cross the line I make with it or HE WILL HIT HIMSELF.... I read that dominant horses need a blocking energy, a wall... so that is what I do with O... I don't go into his space and he doesn't come into mine..... he is not a nipper, no.... he is mouthy..... that means a tendency maybe, but never ever been allowed and I've never been bitten... Oliver is a "nip it in the bud", "think before he does" kind of a horse... you have to be 5 steps ahead of him and let him know that you are not going to let him near you.... he just bit my farrier though and that sux... he's never ever bit anyone before.... we regress.... I wish he would have socked him but he said, oh that's okay it didn't hurt.... my trainer would have a COW!!

Permalink Reply by Jennifer Lamm on March 8, 2011 at 7:54pm

my friend said she was rubbin and being on mushy with her horse the other day and he bit her too..... see I've never been mushy with my horse because of his familiarity complex.....

Permalink Reply by Frank Martinez on March 8, 2011 at 8:17pm

Have hung out with as many as 12 horses at one time, and have never been bitten! Not even by my own horse!

Permalink Reply by Jennifer Lamm on March 10, 2011 at 10:01am

touching them and grooming them might lead to mutual touching and nipping MAYBE.... Oliver and I had fun last night but we never touched each other.... just ran around together... then he just stands by me forever..... but I didn't initiate grooming at all... I went inside and hugged my cats instead. :)

Permalink Reply by Megan Hammock on March 10, 2011 at 1:09pm

That is so cool... That would be SO MUCH FUN.. I watched a Hempfling DVD the other day where a horse (not sure if it was his) was running behind and with him like a devoted pooch.. Whenever Klaus stopped, horsey stopped. Whenever Klaus turned, paused, whatever.. Horsey followed suit! I'm jealous of ya'll! Haha! We'll get there some day, hopefully not far off:) How long did you say you've had Oliver?