I have seen horses using the signals in two different ways.

One; the horse will use the signals to show another individual (horses or humans) that they are not interested in a fight. It can be when the other one is showing agitation/aggression and seems to try and "pick a fight". By responding in a non-threatening way they let the other one know that they are trying to avoid a conflict, and thus hoping that the other one will settle down.

Two: The other setting is when a horse shows calming signal is to tell someone else that they are safe to be around. This is typically done towards young and insecure horses (foals and youngsters) to make them feel safe, but I have seen it in other situations, too.

The signals have similarities, but are not identical, and the interesting thing is that we can use them with horses to convey the same message with the same effect. To me these signals has been of great value when training horses!

The problem with the signals is that it is not ONE signal, and it is easy to both miss or misinterpret.
The first kind, the "no conflict signal" can be the horse sniffing the ground, eating or getting very interested in something. The problem is that horses sometimes sniff the ground, eat or are interested in something, and it's not a signal; it's just what it seems to be.

In order to determine what is going on one must look for the contexts in when it is done.

The first time it struck me as a signal or a message from the horse was several years ago when I was coaching some business people about leadership using horses. They used body-language to ask the horse to follow them, and of course they made mistakes since most had no prior experience with horses.

One of the horses felt pressured by the person and didn't know what he wanted, and she walked away and started eating from the ground. What made me react to that is that this was mid-winter in Norway and the ground was covered in snow. There was absolutely nothing there to eat. She looked like she was paying no attention to the guy what so ever, as if she didn't know he was there; she was just immensely busy with eating... air... or rather pretending to eat.

The guy got really loud and frustrated, and the worse he got, the more she "didn't see him".
She turned from him so that he was behind her, but still in her field of vision. She appeared to be engulfed in what she was doing, but at the same time she discreetly kept an eye on him. She eased slowly away from him, making it look coincidental.

What she did was what I now call "calming signals", but you might have another name for it. I have searched for information about these signals, but haven't found anything, except from the dog trainers where a trainer called Turid Rugaas (also Norwegian) talks about how the dog use his body language to let us now he is not a threat. She uses the term "calming signals" which is why I am calling it that.

The interesting thing with the dogs signals is that although the signals are different from what the horses use, they are based on the same thing; the dog pretends to be occupied with something other than the trainer. The dogs signals also seem to have more a provocative effect on the humans unfortunately; being ignored is a real trigger for humans.

It took years of study to understand them and recognize them, and the process is not finished. Today I see them a lot easier, but they can still be confused with when the horse really IS distracted, and I am still looking for other signs and also how to best respond. It's very exciting, but still a work in progress, which is also why this is something I haven't written about before or shown in my videos. Some day I will make a film about it :)

So, back to the story: After that day with the mare I started noticing this behavior, curious of what it really meant. There were many times where the horse was in a position where it seemed unlikely that it really was interested in smelling the ground, the horse has a different look when it smells something interesting than it does when it just pretends to; it seemed more likely that something else was going on. I soon realized that it meant something else, but I wasn't sure what it was.

In my clinics about body language I let the horse loose in the arena to see how it will react. First to see what it does on it's own, and then how it reacts to me entering. I used to put some pressure on a horse when they didn't respond to my presence, but after that mare I started to realize that there was a connection between my pressure and how the horse seem to "actively ignore" me.

In the beginning I wasn't sure what was going on, but since I had started to think that this was a form for calming signal I started to take the pressure off the horse when they did this. I then turned to the audience and stood in front of them and talked about these signals. What convinced me that I was right about this was that when I did that; take the pressure off the horse, turn away from it and talk to the audience (with the horse just in the corner of my eye) the horses soon walked up to me and stood by me.

That was interesting! The horse that I had tried to talk to and that seemingly was very busy with other things, came to me when I ignored it back! It happened again and again, and I started to realize that I had stumbled upon the answer to one of my questions about it: if the horse was in fact showing calming signals, what would be the best response?

The answer was to signal the same thing back, and it was amazingly simple; when I turned to talk to the audience about this I had done the same thing as the horse; I seemed to be totally uninterested in the horse, I had him in the corner of my eye, but I was very busy with other things. The result was that the horse took it to mean that I was saying to it that I was not a threat to it either, and that meant it was safe to come and talk to me.

I have tested this with many horses, and get the same response from them. If I am in an arena with a strange horse and ask for his attention the horse often responds with a calming signal. When I see that I respond with the same signal (actively ignoring it) and the horse seems relived that I don't want conflict, and then they can come and greet me. Before I was aware of this I would continue using pressure, asking the horse to move before inviting the horse to come to me. That works, but is a lot more complicated and takes much longer, and is much more stressful for the horse. Also, responding with these signals gets the horses to trust me right away and in a way I didn't get before. Normally those horses starts following me around just like people that does what is called a "join up", but the horses is not doing it as a response to a command, they really choose to do it.

This is not something I do with all horses, mind you. Horses react very differently when I enter an arena, and there are times when showing these signals to them is not the right thing to do. But the other variations is another story and we can get into that later. For now I just wanted to give you an idea of these signals, what they are and what they mean, and most of all why I believe this to be the case.

Views: 423

Replies to This Discussion

There are various times when my horse behaves in almost exactly the manner cited above. But to get around it, I have been using the same, or nearly the same tactic. That is, to make an effort to send him the same signal he is apparently sending me. For example, he may be in close, but will not come when called. Another example: when he turns to leave; I do like-wise. But he will keep a closer eye on me than me on him. Sooner or later we'll have a "join-up" if you will. He does, however, love the sound of treats falling in his bucket. He may be hearing one or two pieces fall in. He doesn't react to any specific number of pieces - he just reacts by approaching the bucket; whereas previously he was occupied with the grass, the flies, whatever. Very recently I have attempted to get him to stop "attacking" rewards in the bucket. A first step is to block his approach when he's a few yards from the bucket. Slow him down, as it were. He's gotten the basic idea that when he slows or stops his advance, he will eventually be rewarded. But I'll continue to work on this until it's consistent - which it isn't at the moment.
I would like to add that this introduction and background piece has been a big help to me understanding what this group is about. I now see some of the points members are making, and passing along to others. I especially like the chair game; and have begun to use it today as yet something else my horse needs to learn in order to have better "manners" concerning mounting. He approaches me while I'm standing on my mounting block(in place of a chair) but not passed the point of his head being even with my body. I can't reach his back from that position Perhaps it's the fact that for rewards for any of his efforts, he gets rubs and scratches, but no treats!
I have been very interested in the "calming signals" . I am an equine massage therapist and the majority of horses I work with are young Thoroughbreds (between 2 & 3 years old), in pain, and bred for speed, not personality. Most of them are fine to work with but I ocasionally run into one that has behaviour issues (either due to genetics/people) and they will attack at the slightest hint of a real or perceived threat by me. (I miss some of the warning signals I know they have shown me because I sometimes concentrate on the part of the horse I'm working on not the other bits that give me behaviour info).

Your calming signals have helped me and the current horse like this that I am working with (a 3 yr.old filly) come to a better understanding faster, and more safely for me. Thank you for sharing, and I would love if you would continue to elaborate on the different variations on the calming signals so that this filly and I can better understand each other.
Hi Kim
I am glad to hear that you have found this to be helpful :)

I have been traveling for a couple of weeks now giving lessons and clinics and haven't been able to keep up here, but now I am back and from what I can see the discussion has died a little. I think that's a shame, but if nobody doesn't want to discuss this topic I can't make them do it ;)

I hope that those of you that wants to continue these discussions will do so, and in any case I really hope that those that has read about it here has found it useful or at least interesting. I can't really elaborate much more about this without knowing what people wants to hear about, I am in other words waiting for feedback on what I have already written... :) I will answer questions if anyone has any and look at video clips (I think that is the best way to talk about body language since it is visual) if someone wants my input.
Hi Ellen!

I am wanting to post a video for you to critique, but haven't had a chance yet. Maybe my husband will come to the barn with me on Friday.

I've been busy reading Hempfling's newest book. It is very interesting. He is known as the "master" of body language in horses. Like you, he strongly suggests that people have pictures or video taken of them while they work with their horses, and have a friend or coach analyze them. Also like you, he points out things in pictures in his book that I would never even realize.

I'd been making progress with Fanny in the past week - I've been able to consistently get out to see her every day!! That's something I haven't been able to do for a long time. I am so thankful. I took her for a walk this morning, down the driveway at the barn, for the first time, and she did okay, but I overdid it and kept her out there longer than I should have, because things seemed to be going so well. Then the barn owner drove up and checked his mailbox and she got antsy after that. She was okay, but not as calm as before, and although I tried to act calm, I know that my body language was tense. I will stick to what we were doing before for a while longer and try to rebuild what I tore down :o/

For the most part, things are going really well. As per your suggestion, I am just hanging out with her in the field with the other horses, and grooming her out there. I also practice leading her around in the field. I know that I'm making progress because when I go out there, the other horses ignore me and keep on grazing, but Fanny will come to me!! YAY!
Hi Cyndi... I enjoyed reading your update. :)
Hi Ellen. I think that this topic of learning to communicate with horses is the most important facet of having horses..... maybe the thread died down a little because it got long again and kind of hard to find out where were left off..... in any event, my horses and I are getting along well... I started riding my Oliver... :)

From Above:

Your calming signals have helped me and the current horse like this that I am working with (a 3 yr.old filly) come to a better understanding faster, and more safely for me. Thank you for sharing, and I would love if you would continue to elaborate on the different variations on the calming signals so that this filly and I can better understand each other.
Thank you for the updates :)
I am very glad that you found this useful, and I will continue to answer if you have any questions. :)
Ellen
I have a question about something that just happened..... I am starting to ride my horse.... he is very calm with me, very nice and really starting to move forward when I ask with the slightest try.... I have a new neighbor here whose dog ran into my arena, off the side of the ledge, started chasing my horse and thank goodness was being ridden by my trainer...... he wasn't going to tell me about this incident because he is so happy that I am not afraid of Oliver and I've been more than willing to get on him and start my lessons without feeling anxious for pretty much the first time in 6 years since I've been around horses... so... here is my question...

What do to with that situation above..... the horse was bucking and scared..... my trainer said he did stop..... I haven't gotten to finish asking him what exactly he did because I do not want to even think of it... but now I am.... and..... would you ask your horse to CALM down? or would you try and deal with his energy while he is amped up?

I would tend to want to stop him, get off of him and beat the crap out of the dog and the person that let the dog into my arena..... and show my horse that I can protect him from a predator..... but I'm not sure I could.. I am just learning to ride... that could have been a life threatening experience if I'd been alone with him.... I am not scared of my horse... I am scared of dumb people around my horses. :)
That would be scarey.
Do you find that situations like this often occur only when u are ready to grow? It seems to me that often when a new challenge presents itself for Cash and I, it's almost as if I'm ready for the next test and each test causes more confidence.Not always~~but often. I really wouldn't be happy with the neighbor letting his dog near the horses if it's scaring them. If u aren't on their back it's not so concerning cause they usually can kick at the dog but that wouldn't be much fun to try to ride thru.
I can't tell you what to do (except talk to your neighbor!).
It's not that I don't want to help, but this group was set up for discussions about body language and the communication between horses and humans. I don't mind if you want to talk about other things, but I can't give advise on situations where I don't have a clear picture of what is happening.

One of the problems when we talk about body language is that when people describe what they are doing and what the horse is doing, they can only describe the things they are aware of (naturally). Often the problem lies in the little things they are NOT aware of, so to answer question about a specific situation is impossible. This is why I think it's best to talk about this in general terms using video clips and point out what I see there.

I can of course look at a videoclip that shows a specific situation and tell you what I see in that, but that requires the video to show both the horse and the human. It's the interaction between the two that will show what is going on; with just the horse in the picture it's like trying to make sense of a conversation where you only hear one party - like if you hear someone talk on the phone. You can get an idea what the other one is saying and what they are talking about, but it's not a good basis for a detailed description of the actual conversation.

Another important thing is that the video actually shows the interaction... if the person and the horse is just a blurry spot far away in the image, one can't see any details. It's not easy to figure out or point out any details in footage like that. That would be like analyzing a conversation that you are listening to that is happening in another room.. you can't see what they are doing and you only hear bits and pieces.

As for your particular situation; as a rider just learning to ride and on a horse that doesn't have much experience, you have to avoid situations like this. You haven't got a chance to stay calm, confident and focus on what to do to help the horse, to do that you have to have a lot more experience as a rider.

That you would like to get off the horse and beat up the dog and owner, shows that you are afraid just thinking about the situation. It doesn't matter if you are afraid of your horse or not, the fact is that you are afraid of what the horse might do, what might happen to it, what might happen to you etc. and OF COURSE you are! rightly so!

The big question here is how to control your neighbor and his dog, and I am afraid that I can't help you with that... How about talking to him/her when you are about to get on the horse, and ask them nicely to take their dog in because you are worried about what can happen?

Another idea would be to get the dog over to the paddock and let him and the horses get to know each other, but the outcome there is not very predictable. Or move to a place without neighbors ;)

I do think it's wrong to blame the dog for acting like a dog, or the horse to act like a horse, though. This is a situation that should be prevented, not managed...
Ellen, I really believe that for this thread to grow we need to talk about real life situations... and for me to ask if you would calm your horse down as a way to communicate with my horse I think is a pertinent question....

and I appreciate your answer. :)

RSS

The Rider Marketplace

International Horse News

Click Here for Barnmice Horse News

© 2024   Created by Barnmice Admin.   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service