Comment

Comment by Geoffrey Pannell on May 15, 2010 at 6:12pm

I think, from what you have said about Zuckie, there is an easy answer, just shoe him. I think your right to not just PUSH him through it like some of your freinds have suggested, how hard is it to put some shoes on? Then you will have peace of mind that your horse is not going to get sore on the rocky ground. Sounds like he is a bit of a princess on the road, lol , Iv'e got a couple like that, you can almost hear them say ooh,ooh ouch, as they pick there way through the rough. I agree with what you say Ward except, I dont agree that the foot degrades through being shod alone, yes most common blooded horses are fine NEVER being shod, but in my experience I never seen a horse worse of for being shod WELL. I guess thats the caviet though , Well shod!!
All horses are un shod in the wild of course, however the natural selection process weeds out any poor feet and they just dont surive, unlike thier pampred cousins that we have mostly bred the toughness out of. Cheers Geoffrey

Comment by John Freeman on May 15, 2010 at 9:27am

Thanks Geoffrey and Ward. Obviously, there's no simple answer. According to our farrier, Zuckie has hooves like iron, and riding in the ring and around the farm trails, he does just fine. The problem is that restricts to us to a limited series of trails. To go anywhere else means some road work. The farm has frontage on two roads and one of them is asphalt. He seems to be OK there, but the best trails require either going a ridiculously long way round, or using the other frontage road, which is a dirt and gravel road. In Lennox and Addington, all the dirt roads are actually covered in gravel. The gravel gets swept aside by vehicles over time, at which point, they are quite nice to ride on. But the township regrades them and then the stones are spread all over the road and there isn't much of a grass verge to take advantage of. They even put this gravel down on the trails where they meet roads. The trails themselves are often rocky as we are on limestone, which is very close to the surface in places and gets broken up into chunks.

To be honest, it's the hassle of putting boots on and off that makes me hesitate, but I like the combination of cushioning and traction they offer.

Despite the farrier's view of Zuckie's feet, he's very ouchy on the gravel and generally very picky about where he walks. He doesn't like soft footing either. Friends say I should just push him through the discomfort, but I see that as abusive. I know him well enough to know that he's super willing and if he balks at something, there's a reason. That is balks, not spooks. He does enough of that I sometimes think his name should be Spooky, not Zuckie. No one seems to know where that name came from, anyway. His registered name is Kendal Patrol. I'm glad he didn't become Ken or Pat!

Comment by Ward Edwards on May 15, 2010 at 9:00am

While I would like to think that all horses can go barefoot, I agree that there are some horses that do need shoes, usually thoroughbreds, that have had the feet bred off of them (thin soles, poor quality wall), however, if possible, it is healthier for the foot to go barefoot. If a horse can go barefoot and the work is consistent, the hoof can usually adapt to most natural terrains. If, however, you are regularly riding on the roads, particularly asphalt, you will need some sort of protection, and most people choose to use shoes because they are more convenient. So, yes, your eventers who do a lot of road work will need to be protected

Where the problems really show up are on the horses that are left in a pasture for most of the week and then ridden on long rides on harsh footing. In this case the foot cannot adapt to the terrain and they start to get damaged. In this case boots or shoes would be required. Since boots can be a pain to deal with, most people will choose the convenience of shoes.

I also think that some of the problem stems from the fact that some horses are shod immediately when they go into work, and over time the internal structure of the hoof degrades, often to the point that they will never be sound without shoes. The same horse, if he had been left barefoot, would have developed very solid feet.

Comment by Geoffrey Pannell on May 14, 2010 at 6:43pm

Hi John and Ward, Now just for the record ,I dont want to get into a slanging match shoeing V barefoot.
I have 25 horses half of witch are shod half not, the ones that are barefoot dont do much road work and have very hard good feet. The ones that are shod are the compitition horses ( EVENTERS) so they do a lot of miles out of the arena. If they weren't shod we wouldn't have a sound horse amongst them . It all depends on the type of work the horses are getting and also what the horse feet are like naturally, some horses have good tough feet some don't. Iv'e horse here that have never been shod , their feet are so tough. I've also horses that cannot go a day without shoes and not be lame.
Cheers Geoffrey

Comment by John Freeman on May 14, 2010 at 10:58am

Thanks again, Ward. You are a fund of information. Zuckie is barefoot now and has been for quite a few years. I really like the concept of having him live as naturally as possible. The problem is, we don't do a lot of ring work and only riding on the farm gets to be repetitive and he bores easily. The longer trails are great but too rocky for him without some protection, so I've been weighing the decision - boots or shoes. I think boots are going to win.

Comment by Ward Edwards on May 14, 2010 at 9:54am

I'll try not to start a religious war on this one. Personally I prefer to leave a horse barefoot unless there is an absolute need for shoes (the feet are wearing faster than they can grow). I have found that a proper barefoot trim (frog touching the ground) will do for the vast majority of horses, and for the odd time you are working on rough footing, boots are a good solution, and if you need traction, some boots can be fitted with studs. The only downside of boots is that you have to keep the foot trimmed so that the boot fit properly. My mare is ridden 5 days a week in a sand arena and she continues to grow faster than she wears. I have found that if you work them harder, the foot will compensate and grow more rapidly. The problem occurs when you do a one time hard ride on rough surfaces such as asphalt and this is where boots are a good solution. (I have been shoeing and trimming part-time for 17 years)

Comment by John Freeman on May 14, 2010 at 9:16am

Thanks, Ward. I suspect I fit more into the "getting it done" mode than the detail mode. I'd probably be better at a lot of things if I were more detail oriented.

On a different note, does anyone know much about the different options for shoeing vs. boots? Right now my horse is barefoot, but that limits us a bit when it comes to trails as some of them are rocky.

Obviously shoes are an option but I am haunted by the memory of a horse loosing her footing and doing the splits under me on a road one time. I know I could get shoes with studs, but I'm too lazy to want to have to put them in and take them out all the time.
Does anyone have experience with composition/plastic shoes?

Comment by Ward Edwards on May 14, 2010 at 9:03am

I asked my wife about the differences between teaching boys and girls, and she confirmed that part of it is giving boys more of a challenge. She also said that with the boys it is better to "get it done" type of instructions rather than long detailed explanations, which she said that adult women prefer. With boys, she said that you have to appeal more to the ego.

The fact that women prefer more detailed explanations dovetails well with the observation that most men who ride are detail oriented, as this is how many instructors teach. The detail oriented men would be less likely to lose interest and drop out.

Comment by John Freeman on May 13, 2010 at 1:48pm

Those mares in heat at the barn harassed my poor gelding terribly, but one of them actually fixated on me. It was both funny and embarrassing as she was not shy about offering herself to me. She's a sweet mare, but...
I kept telling her "I'm no use to you honey. I'm not what you need." I'm happy she has got over it now, though its clear that she likes me.

As to smell vs. body language, not knowing how advanced your MS is, I would suspect that body language might be more of a factor, or does your medication alter your body chemistry? I suppose it would.

I must confess, I'd never thought directly about my body language other than the obvious slow, quiet, gentle thing. Maybe that's another aspect that puts horses off some men - the bull in the china shop approach.

One of the most satisfying aspects for me with my horse is the knowledge that he goes better for me than he has for anyone else, even his favorite women, and he loves women. Zuckie is a Standardbred, retrained for riding through the Ontario Standardbred Adoption Society, for which I volunteer. His previous owner asked me if he still paces and I was able to honestly say that he has never paced with me. Another friend, who used to ride him, said she never got him to canter, whereas with me he canters in both directions from a walk. He's definitely not school horse material and is totally unforgiving when a beginner is on his back, but incredibly responsive and eager to please with me. I feel like I'm boasting, but it's more like relief because I have worked hard with him - not so much under saddle, because that has been easy, but in convincing him that I'm OK on the ground. He's a real character and very opinionated.

Comment by Jackie Cochran on May 13, 2010 at 10:47am

I have noticed that mares often prefer men. The first mare I owned (Paso Fino, got her as a weanling) fell in love with my husband early on (he is not a horseman, I just came equipped with a horse.) She was an advanced horse for anyone else (boys and women), but the three times my husband rode her she was super patient and forgiving.
Geldings, in my observations, often LOVE little girls (pre-puberty).
Due to my MS it takes a while for the horses to figure out that I am a human being, I think it affects my smell. Gelding, mares or stallions, it usually takes me 3 to 6 months before they are content that I MAY be a human being, though they are never really sure. Oddly enough I get exactly the same response from people.
I think that human body-language has an effect almost equal to the smell on horses determining the sex of a person.

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