I am beginning to wonder about horsemen and horsewomen insisting on "playing" with their horses.
When I started out riding, people did not play with their horses. It was heavily discouraged because it ENCOURAGES DISRESPECT. If you wanted to get your horse fit, you WORKED him properly, schooling him in a well thought out program.
If all a horse does around you is play he starts thinking that he does not have to work at all unless he feels like it.
You have to TRAIN a horse to obey you.
Am I just an old fashioned fuddy-duddy?

Views: 680

Reply to This

Replies to This Discussion

Hi, Over Fences, well said, I heartily agree. I know several Parelli followers. One really knows her stuff, one sorta knows her stuff, and one seriously looks like an accident waiting to happen. I don't wish ill of anyone, but a horse needs stability and trust. Two more important things than a carrot stick or Logo visor.
Well, even Pat would agree with all of that, Marti. I'm sure he would like to see all his students really learn their stuff and be stable and trustworthy for their horses.
Thanks Jackie, I agree completely. My concern is with the fact that many people see commercial "Natural Horsemanship" programmes as a guaranteed way for anyone to train any horse, and it is just not that simple. I have heard novices whom I know say "I can do that easily" when watching an accomplished horse-person working with a horse... even when the thing being achieved is immensely challenging, even for the experienced trainer. When someone is very good at something, it can look easy. Unfortunately, not enough focus is put into dispelling this misconception, and emphasizing the discipline required. I also have issues with rebranding common sense, common tools, and age-old techniques as something new. I agree that it is marketing genius, and fully acknowledge that the programmes are great for the people who do enjoy them, and who do approach them with common sense and discipline... but any one specific method is not going to be a good fit for every person or every horse.

Classical Dressage is a passion of mine, and so yes, I do know of Walter Zettl. I respect him immensely, and I attend his clinics whenever possible. He is a Classical Dressage master, and he uses training methods that nicely complement Parelli training, but I do not consider him to be a Parelli practitioner per se (I could be very wrong, I am basing my opinion simply on what I have experienced). When I attend a Walter Zettl clinic (not a Parelli/Zettl event, but a Zettl clinic) I see Classical Dressage, not Parelli training. Walter Zettl shares the same core belief (from his site: "Our training should not cause undo stress and anxiety, but rather be fun and playful up to the highest level."), but I do not see him as a Parelli trainer... he has been training horses with respect since long before the Parellis founded their program.
I didn't mean to imply that Walter is a Parelli practitioner but I don't think he would participate with the Parelli's once a month for several months if he didn't appreciate the Parelli's efforts.
Personally my hopes are that his efforts will help to merge people to see the benefits of both views and that they can compliment each other. That is how I feel...that each is very beneficial if done properly and as actually taught.
I do specifically remember Pat stressing that people should not go home and work with other peoples horses and that the beginning levels do not qualify anyone to teach others horses or to teach any colts. But as you say maybe not enough focus is put on this. It was evident to me but maybe I'm more logical then some. (LOL, that is a laugh!) But, I do take this all very seriously and I do work at it and I spend A LOT of time with my horse and I do make him mind me. ALWAYS!! He is a horse and he does things he should not at times but he isn't allowed to get away with it.
I have appreciated everyones input too and do not mean to imply in any way that ANY horse trainers methods are the one and only to follow. I boarded at a non-Parelli !!!!! training barn for 3 years with 2 traditional trainers that trained many horses and people in both western and dressage. Many of their students showed in point shows and I loved to watch everyone 'working' hard to attain their desired goals. It was a great experience and I feel very fortunate to have been there for so long. There was always something new to learn.
I hope we all continue to learn new things, and have fun while we are working hard.
Keep Horsen Around!
I agree that it is good when people from various disciplines come together... it increases awareness of the various approaches that exist. The wonderful thing that the Parellis and WAZ have in common is their view that horse-people should respect their equine partners, and that training should not cause anxiety for the horses. As someone who loves dressage, I am thrilled that there are trainers/coaches (like Walter Zettl) in my discipline who do train with kindness, not force.

I am fortunate to also be at a barn where there are people with varying approaches to training, and who are pursuing different disciplines. It is interesting to see the different methods and personalities (human and horse) at work. It is an education... and also a lot of fun. They even have me thinking that I should try riding western sometime! ;)
Hi Jackie.. in all my novice-ness I learned the one thing I have on my side is time and patience.... if not skill or experience and I do not want to get hurt or go in the hospital over a mustang, that is for sure and I do not want my young horse damaged because of me. ..... man, it takes a lot of practice... my horse is 4 so I never give up on him...... project to when he is 10 and the work has been done... :) for some people that is when their horse is really good for them... but I am consistent... Oliver may not get away with it this time either... and like i've told him over 1200 times.... 4 years, 365 days a year, but he still tries... :) I guess that is what makes him a horse.
I just want to tell everybody how impressed I have been with ALL the replies.
Barnmice obviously attracts true horsewomen and true horsemen. I have never had such an in-depth discussion on training issues with so many experienced riders in my life. Your answers show that you've learned from your experiences with horses, and that you all want to continue to learn all you can.
Truly amazing.
Agreed! It is nice to see people who are devoted to finding ways to work with their horses in a manner enjoyable to the individual horse and human. The interaction between two beings in any relationship, including the human-equine one, certainly is a very personal thing. The one thing that we all seem to share is a passion for our equine partnerships!
Over Fences, I don't think we've directly shared views together but I've read many of your interesting comments. I feel very much the same way as you do about Barnmice and the good folks we're meeting here. I hope I'm not one of those that seems to be indulging in nastiness online. In the past I have been easily stifled when I had different thoughts then another and would generally clam up and not say what I thought. Now, I have gotten to the point that I want to exchange views. I want to listen and to be listened to...like you say a back and forth discussion. Since I got back into horses, my social bravery seems to grow with my horse bravery. But it takes practice to do either of them gracefully. And to be honest I find myself being overly sensitive at times and read more criticism in some things then is intended by the person writing. That's getting better with practice too.
Should we start a group, "We'll never stop learning!"? and another for those that know they are better then others, "NO stuffed shirts allowed" That's my humor, I hope it's not in bad taste. A self-
righteous attitude is one of my major pet peeves. I was helping a lady at the barn tonight that was trying to wrap the foot of a very uncooperative horse. Her daughter just left for college last week and the horse is her daughters. It did appear that I was calming the horse a bit and she stopped fighting the process. So when all was done, the lady thanked me and said "She likes you!" and I said "that's my goal in life...for horses to like me" She said "They are probably a better judge of character then most people." I believe in general that is true of horses and I HOPE in my case it was true. Don't get me wrong, I don't want them to like me so much that I let them be bad. I do believe many times they misbehave because they are scared. I love to be able to calm them and then get them to do whatever with trust instead of scaring them more into doing whatever. I don't think people or animals can learn easily when they are scared. If you followed that, I'm relieved! I just think a lot of people that have problems with horses are the problem. But, I leave the really naughty ones to someone with much more experience then I to handle them.

With all that said, "Let's Keep Horsen Around!" and encouraging all!.
Shirley
Very well said Shirley. I'm right with you on that one. I don't think that there is very much nastiness on this site, and it is sooo healthy to share experiances that we have with our horses, we don't have to agree with what everyone else does . It doesn't make us any less of a person if we don't allways agree. Keep a bit of humour in it , your a long time dead!! Cheers Geoffrey (hic)
Geoffrey, once again you make me hoot! It's so true that you are a long time dead (unless you believe in reincarnation, where you get to come back and perfect the mistakes you made this time round! Oh Deep joy!)

This is one of the reasons I also love coming to this site, because there are differences of opinion but everyone is open to hearing other people's views. It does fascinate me, though, how time and time again the discussion turns to Parelli vs other 'natural horsemanship methods' of training. What is it with Parelli in particular that gets people so hyped up?

I love the idea of setting up a 'never stop learning' forum! Unfortunately I think it would probably be the same old group of us mulling over the same old ideas and preaching to the converted! Ha ha!
I suspect that part of the reason it ends up being Parelli is the title of his program, "Natural Horsemanship". When I first heard the term I actually thought it might be an off-shoot of Forward Seat training! (LOL)
Isn't the term now trademarked? Personally I find it offensive when people trademark phrases that have long been used in print. But that is just my opinion. It's just that I find it VERY IRRITATING.
Beginners look around for systems that will lead them to the "truth", preferably without much work. Unless these beginners have been studious and read EVERY book on training and riding around, they have absolutely no idea where to go and how to learn. Then they run into a program with certification, incremental steps, AND a wonderful name, like Natural Horsemanship, for example. (there have been others), and they say wow, this must be THE truth.
After decades of observing riders and horses, I have come to the conclusion that EVERY serious rider has his OWN system, which may resemble other people's systems, but have their own quirks. My respect for horses has skyrocketed the last 5 years. One lesson horse I would ride first with my system, and next my instructor would ride him with her own VERY different system (both hunt seat) and this horse had no problems understanding EITHER of us, and obeyed both of us willingly.
As I said before in another discussion, every dedicated Natural Horsemanship practitioner will, in a few decades time, practice THEIR OWN school of horsemanship which will resemble Parelli's system just as much as my system of riding resemble's Caprilli's Forward Riding system of riding and training. AND it will be a very effective system with which they do wonders with their horses.

RSS

The Rider Marketplace

International Horse News

Click Here for Barnmice Horse News

© 2024   Created by Barnmice Admin.   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service