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Body language of horses; the calming signals
In the video "Linda Parelli shows how to effectivly hit with the snap" I commented on the horses use of what I call "calming signals". Since there were some interesst in what I wrote I thougth we could talk about it in this forum thread.
I wrote (so I don't have to repeat myself):
Cartoonracher wrote: "When the young woman is trying to back her horse away (under the big tree), he's obviously confused and "over" the whole lesson. He's tuning her out because nothing he's done has been rewarded. It's nothing but non-stop horse-irritating."
I reacted especially to that scene, too. At first the girl is trying to back the horse when he is in front of the tree. Horses don't have good depth perception, especially backwards, so it seems he is asked to back into the tree, something he feels he can't.
After this the horse is seemingly tuning her out, something Linda claims is disrespectful. The sad thing about it is that the horse is NOT tuning her out, the horse is communicating with horse body language that he is not wanting any conflict. I talk about this in my body language clinics a lot, because not many people seems to be aware of the horses
"calming signals".
Horses use these signals when they feel pressured and wants to let the person understand that they perceive them as agitated/aggressive, but that the person can calm down, because they do not pose any threat to them.
Some of the comments here has been about the horse arching away and trying to turn away from the people. What the horse is trying to do is to signal that he's NOT a threat, and by that it's trying to get the person to not be so aggressive. This is the very opposite of disrespect!
The worst thing about the horses calming signals is that it provokes people. People feel ignored and that is for a human a big provocation. Especially when they have been taught that this is a disrespectful sign from the horse! It's a bit off topic here, but I mention it because it's part of the problem with the clip; not only is she using a horrible technique, she is also gravely misreading the horse!
Even a mild correction would have been wrong when the horse is signaling "lets just have peace - I don't wish to fight with you"… if a horse gives you that message and you correct it you are basically telling it "I don't want peace - and I do want to have a fight".
Like I said, it's off topic, but if someone wants me to explain more about these signals I can, we could always make a separate discussion about it.
The horses calming signals is something I haven't written about before although I talk about this in my clinics. There are a couple of reasons for that: one, I don't know how to begin writing about it - in a clinic it comes naturally when a horse displays the signals - and also because I don't know how much people knows about this already. In Scandinavia, where I live and teach, I know that my students says that this is news to them, but for all I know this is common knowledge in Canada :)
Another big reason is that what I am talking about goes against what most trainers believe in, and rocks the foundation of what many people consider natural horsemanship. I think...
Last, but not least; it is a big topic... so to write about it is a big task, but I will do so if I see that people truly are interessted in what I am talking about :)
That is why I want this to be in a discussion form, to get a grasp of what you know about this already, and also to be able to show some video clips to show you what I am talking about.
To not make this text too long I think it's a good idea if I write seperate posts about the different signals. That way I can add on information as I see what people have questions about :)
I wrote (so I don't have to repeat myself):
Cartoonracher wrote: "When the young woman is trying to back her horse away (under the big tree), he's obviously confused and "over" the whole lesson. He's tuning her out because nothing he's done has been rewarded. It's nothing but non-stop horse-irritating."
I reacted especially to that scene, too. At first the girl is trying to back the horse when he is in front of the tree. Horses don't have good depth perception, especially backwards, so it seems he is asked to back into the tree, something he feels he can't.
After this the horse is seemingly tuning her out, something Linda claims is disrespectful. The sad thing about it is that the horse is NOT tuning her out, the horse is communicating with horse body language that he is not wanting any conflict. I talk about this in my body language clinics a lot, because not many people seems to be aware of the horses
"calming signals".
Horses use these signals when they feel pressured and wants to let the person understand that they perceive them as agitated/aggressive, but that the person can calm down, because they do not pose any threat to them.
Some of the comments here has been about the horse arching away and trying to turn away from the people. What the horse is trying to do is to signal that he's NOT a threat, and by that it's trying to get the person to not be so aggressive. This is the very opposite of disrespect!
The worst thing about the horses calming signals is that it provokes people. People feel ignored and that is for a human a big provocation. Especially when they have been taught that this is a disrespectful sign from the horse! It's a bit off topic here, but I mention it because it's part of the problem with the clip; not only is she using a horrible technique, she is also gravely misreading the horse!
Even a mild correction would have been wrong when the horse is signaling "lets just have peace - I don't wish to fight with you"… if a horse gives you that message and you correct it you are basically telling it "I don't want peace - and I do want to have a fight".
Like I said, it's off topic, but if someone wants me to explain more about these signals I can, we could always make a separate discussion about it.
The horses calming signals is something I haven't written about before although I talk about this in my clinics. There are a couple of reasons for that: one, I don't know how to begin writing about it - in a clinic it comes naturally when a horse displays the signals - and also because I don't know how much people knows about this already. In Scandinavia, where I live and teach, I know that my students says that this is news to them, but for all I know this is common knowledge in Canada :)
Another big reason is that what I am talking about goes against what most trainers believe in, and rocks the foundation of what many people consider natural horsemanship. I think...
Last, but not least; it is a big topic... so to write about it is a big task, but I will do so if I see that people truly are interessted in what I am talking about :)
That is why I want this to be in a discussion form, to get a grasp of what you know about this already, and also to be able to show some video clips to show you what I am talking about.
To not make this text too long I think it's a good idea if I write seperate posts about the different signals. That way I can add on information as I see what people have questions about :)
Views: 4571
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Jennifer Lamm on
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EGo is what it reminds me of and the need to dominate.... to say, he's being disrespectful... I asked Oliver the other day when we were chatting, does a horse even use these words, respect and disrespect? I doubt it... :)
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Where did Ellen go?????? Hi Ellen!!
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Permalink Reply by Marlene Thoms on
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I think we kinda hijacked her thread. Apologies to Ellen. I think she was really trying to stay on the topic of the horse calming signals and we got off on a tangent about trust and respect etc. One calming signal I find interesting is the "sigh". I know if my guy does it, I have just got him into a zone where I want him. He may be a little tense, I give him scratches or brush him, try to give him a moment before I ask something new, and he sighs, kind a just lets a deep breath go. And bingo I know he's right again. Has anyone else noticed this, or noticed how their own deep breath can affect their horse?
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I wait for it before I move on. When a kid comes over to jump on my horses back I tell them, only if Toby says it's okay... he will relax and breathe out a long sigh... I wait for it ..... but I'm gonna shut up now and see if Ellen comes back... :)
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Permalink Reply by Sarah Siler on
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Yes, I have noticed that Rip will sigh, like he's all calm and relaxed and willing to 'let this human do what she must', not really a resigned to my wishes type of thing, more like he's understanding I need him to stand, or whatever, and he's trusting me. He started a yawning thing the other day at the morning feed, anyone know what he's trying to say, other than, "You woke me up." LOL.
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oh no, I was going to shut up... he's releasing endorphins, according to Chris Irwin, and beginning to really be "comfortable" around you...... in Chris' videos he teaches to work on getting this... you are getting somewhere Sarah... Chris says he is getting high off you.. .and pretty soon will choose you over being alone because you are helping him release these endorphins......
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You have made my day Jennifer!!!!! Thanks!
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Permalink Reply by Geoffrey Pannell on
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I don't think that we have hijacked the thread at all!! How can we talk about calming signals and not talk about things that either keep us calm or not?
I think you girls are on the right track with trust. You can get your horse to do just about anything if they trust you first. The big thing that gets stuck in my throat with that Parelli video, which is what started this thread remember, is the lack of any development of trust in any way. The poor little horse didn't know what was happening most of the time, one of the poorest displays of horsemanship I've ever seen.
Marlene is right , it doesn't have to be a battle, in fact if you think your going into battle with a horse, good luck, they are a lot bigger than us lol.
Jennifer, your right on the money too, it's not about EGO, but for some people they can't help themselves and I think that's what we saw in that video. It's a bit like the Emperor's new cloths, you have your devotee's worshiping at your feet that can see no wrong and aren't game enough to speak up. Thankfully enough people are, so we see they have feet of clay after all.
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Permalink Reply by Cyndi on
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One thing that really irritated me with the Parelli video is how the horse was constantly stopped or backed up by the swinging clip, and then pulled along at a fast walk. I was confused as to what she wanted the horse to do, so I can't imagine what the poor horse was thinking. He'd get backed up, then pulled forward, and when he caught up with them they'd back him up again, then yank on the lead again, etc...hmmmm...
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I hate to keep harping on the LP video, but what you've said about the little horse and not trusting LP is so spot on. At one point the little horse, during the leading part on the track area, reaches up with it's muzzle and touches it's owner's elbow, like a foal reaching out to touch it's mother's flank for reassurance, a calming signal telling the owner it didn't want to fight and needed a safe place to be. What it got from the owner was punishment, LP told the owner the horse was invading her space. The horse trusted it's owner, at least at that point. Building trust is a long, sometimes difficult, road. Destroying that trust only takes a few seconds and while rebuilding it can be done, it's an even longer road.
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Permalink Reply by Megan Hammock on
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WOO! I got 2 sighs out of Kai the other day! She tried to groom me after that.. I had to politely tell her I didn't really want her teeth on my arm, even if it was a sweet nibble.. Haha:)
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