now..I am sure there has to be someone out here that can give me advice and tell me if this product even exists.

I have 2 horses which both share one pen in my back yard. Now when I had my two hard keepers it wasn't bad I'd just add more hay, or a complete/high fat/protein supplement/feed into their diet. But this October I sold one of the hard keepers. I now own a Paint that can live off of air, and a hard keeper. Now the hard keeper is mostly because he is a growing yearling that didn't have a good start to life (his mom tried to kill him) and so he has been an orphan since birth. They both get the same amount of cubes a day which is two ice cream pales per day. This has worked out well so far, with the yearling staying in his summer condition (ribs show when he bends) and the fat Paint has lost about 70 pounds..

To keep my yearling at his optimum weight I give him half a coffee can of sweet feed, and about a pound of high fat feed (a heaping Hoffmans complete feed scoop), and flax along with the cubes. He is doing well, I don't want him super hyped out so this has worked wonders..(the sweet feed is used unstead of oats because he doesn't quite like the taste of the protein feed and he needs the energy for a freezing winters). Because the protein comes in quite big pellets I have gone to soaking it over night in about 4 cups of water.



Now here comes the question, my fat Paint needs to have glucosmane and MSM so I hide it in soaked 2 cups of sweet feed, 1/4 cup of flax and the glucosamine/MSM. It has worked wonders too, excpet that he isn't drinking enough water since the cubes have little moisture content and need water to break down in their digestive system. So how can I get more water in his diet?

I cannnot soak the cubes as they will freeze in our winters and they won't eat it. I cannot give him any higer fat feeds to soak as he is fat and that would cripple him. SO is there any fillers out there that I can just soak to his glucosamine that will give him some extra water, since the yearling is not having the problem since he gets that extra water in his supplements. His poo is hard which is where I have come to that fact that he is not getting enough water. They have 24/7 water which is never frozen, they have 24/7 to mineral and salt lick which is near the water trough.

both horses have drank the water as I have both watched them drink.

I am just worried of dehydration and colic.

thanks. (here are some pictures of both of them, and their cubes)

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In the cold weather down here I would first soak the feed, and when it got down into the teens and twenties (F) I would add hot water just before I carried the feed down. By the time I got down to the paddock the feed was cool enough for the horses to eat, and if it was too hot it would cool down in a minute or two if I stirred it well with a stick. I also put loose salt in the feed, around a teaspoon or two, and mixed it in real well.
I fed whole oats, whole corn and alfalfa pellets in addition to their hay. I would carry hot water down with me to check after 30 minutes or so and add hot water (tap water hot to your hand) if the feed had started to freeze. Usually the horses wanted their food so badly that they wolfed it right up before it froze a second time.
I know my winters tend to be much milder than your winters, but I hope this gives you some ideas.
Sometimes the horses would get sort of mad because their feed got real sloppy, so do not have the feed swimming in the water. Horses like to have some texture to their food since they like chewing.
thats the issue, By the time they ate their cubes (when I did soak them in hot water) they would eat slowly because they didn't like it, and hence they froze..they both spend more time fighting over the "better" bucket (they are exactly the same) then they do actually eating.

So for the moment I took a handfull of cubes and I am soaking them in water with his sweet feed and glucosamine, I may just put some electrolytes in his feed and maybe add some table salt..but I am afraid with the salt that he will just get more dehydrated since he licks his salt lick all the time, but his poo is still quite hard..But the yearling isn't so i think its just the matter of adding more water to his "treat" in the afternoon... Some one mentioned to me beet pulp as a filler, but doesn't that help with weight gain?
I have not found beet pulp to help with weight gain much. The people I know who use it at our place have horses for flat racing and they feed it as a 'filler' in winter when the horses are not in work. I would also recommend bucket heaters if your feed is freezing. If you are worried about electrolytes, I would just put a salt lick in the bottom of the feed tub, as opposed to on the ground.

I have personally had great results switching from local 2nd cut (lunch and AM) to alfalfa hay. It has kept my yearling growing steady, and my 6 yr old hard keeper in work in good condition.
they are on alfalfa/timothy cubes. We are on a 3 acre lot, and as a 18 year old in school, riding, showing, and working, I do not have enough money to purchase the same quality of hay as the cubes, its $90.00-100.00 for cubes a month, while the hay is $225-250.00 a month. I had previously been using hay since I was 12-17, but have found the convenince and affordablitity very nice.

Heated buckets cost to much,and to hard to transport. My horses would trash the buckets we have around here very easily, making it a pain for me to feed, and hazardous.

They lick the salt lick at least twice a day (from what I have watched) for a good 3 minutes each, while also getting a daily supplement of minerals designed for the Albertan horse.

The yearling looks about the same as in the show picture I had up, I have tried adding some water to half of the cubes during "treat/grain/supplement feeding" time and removed the sweet feed from the easy keepers diet, it has seemed to help.

although I would love to have the yearling on straight alfalfa hay, as I said in the beginning both hard keepers and very easy keeper live together.
Hi!

I'm not sure I quite understand some of your problem, but I certainly understand the freezing feed in winter issue! What you might find helpful for the Paint is to switch to one feed like Otter Co-op's FibreMax or ProForm's ProFibre feed, both of which contain beet pulp (I have to confess that I don't agree with Michelle Synnot's comment above, and most equine nutritionists wouldn't either) and soy hulls, which, when soaked, are low calorie, low starch/carbohydrate, hydrating, palatable, and fibre-dense. You could mix the glucosamine/MSM into that, which would deal with all of your issues.

I have to say, though, that two gallons of hay cubes/day is pretty minimal fibre intake for any horse, let alone horses living out in Alberta's winters. My horses are all working, and have large turnout areas, but they are eating 30 lbs of grass hay per day, plus a gallon of alfalfa/timothy cubes per day, plus a vitamin/mineral mix. Even the easy keepers get 25 lbs of hay and a gallon of cubes per day plus the vitamin/mineral mix. There's no doubt that your Paint, especially if he/she is not working, won't need that much, but I think you're erring on the short side. You could certainly supplement the fibre and water intake by substituting either of the two feeds I've mentioned in place of the grain and flax. You could also add it to the hard keeper's current ration to push up the fibre and water intake.
both get grain (well just took the Paint off grain) and flax. The food cubes will swell to about 6 pails full. I didn't ask if I was feeding enough (as I am its 10% of their body weight, and I don't want to over feed and let food go through them) Its about 30 pounds a day I give them. I WILL NOT OVER FEED.

My question was how I could get more water into my Paint without adding more calories. The yearling looks better now, then he did when he was on a round bale, the yearling is healthy.

many people overfeed by the way, and I was with cubes. (giving about 3-4 pails a day unstead of 2 a day) and I had a nutritionist tell me so.

both horses are blanketted 24-7 with attached hoods when it gets colder, in turnout.
Hi, again:

Go back and read what I wrote to you. I am not suggesting that you should overfeed your horses. Many people do overfeed, but they don't usually overfeed hay and fibre, they overfeed grain and concentrates. I also did not suggest that your horses don't look healthy.

If you check out the feeds I mentioned, you'll discover that they both need soaking, which will take care of your hydration worries as well as adding fibre, which will address your colic concerns.

I did tell you how to get more water into them, particularly into the Paint, in a way which would NOT contribute to overfeeding.
sorry stressed diploma I had to do the next day..my appologies, although, at the first sentence It did mention that you didn't understand what I was asking for...I will keep your idea in mind do you know off hand how much (price and measurement) and how long the Hulls last?
Don't sweat it - we all have bad days!

Actually, I gave you an incorrect name for one product - what you would want is ProFibre FX, not ProFibre Crunch. The Crunch version is for Cushingoid horses, and isn't meant to be soaked. Both ProFibre FX and FibreMax are made with beet pulp and soy hulls, by-products of other industries, which means that they are inexpensive (as horse feeds go!).

Horses metabolize both products well and efficiently, and they both add bulk and hydration to the gut contents. I know ProForm products are available in AB, but I don't know for sure about the Otter Co-Op products - they are usually marketed under the "Lifeline" or "Phase Feeds" tags, so that might help you find them. Both are made in BC, so you are not paying for importation from the US. It may be that there is a similar feed available from an AB feed manufacturer, I just might no be aware of it.

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