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Permalink Reply by Kevan on March 11, 2009 at 11:10am

There are times & places for "tough love", but teaching isn't among them. Elaine said it best: "If the student has not learned, the teacher has not taught."

I've been teaching professional improvement courses for about 12 years now. In that realm I get a wide array of students; from those who are quick, willing study's to the ones who seem to only be there putting in time. The most effective teaching tool I've found is to invoke the student's own self-interest; make 'em feel special, make 'em feel like they're getting more than they bargained for & they'll absorb half again what they would normally do on their best day.

The day of the taskmaster has thankfully past, resting where it belongs; next to the pictures of other cavemen ...

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Permalink Reply by Geoffrey Pannell on March 12, 2009 at 7:56am

As much as we would like to think that these type of instructors are long gone, clearly they are not ! There have been a lot positive responses to this blog ,and that makes me glad, no proud, to be in such company. However , that doesn't stop the fact that there are still coaches that think it is normal to bring kids to tears , not just in equestrian sport, and will continue to do so . The question is , what can be done . How do the parents of kids, whom don't have a lot of knowledge, address this problem? I'd be interested to here everyone's thoughts Cheers Geoffrey

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Permalink Reply by Jan Jollymour on March 12, 2009 at 11:56am

Let's differentiate between volume and belittling. Teaching riding lessons often involves "yelling" as the areas are large, we often have to work around environmental distractions, and riders who are so involved in their process that they can't "hear" the instruction.

However, there is never any place for negativity, patronizing behaviour, or belittling of a student or their horse. There are times when I have to use my voice to pull or push a student into putting out more effort, but that must be done positively, not negatively. A lesson should consist of a three party team, the horse, the rider and the coach, and for the most part each of those parties should leave a lesson feeling energized, positive and looking forward to the next time.

That said, I have had clients who've driven me nearly to tears with their anger at their horses, their lack of dedication and focus, and their unrealistic expectations of everyone around them, including me!

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Permalink Reply by Jan Jollymour on March 12, 2009 at 3:27pm

Hi, Elaine:

I concur, however, I meet lots of clients (I teach a lot of clinics) who really have trouble identifying their goals, and then articulating them. Then of course we have the clients who come right out and say "I'm going to ride on the Canadian Team someday". I recently had a 61 year old woman who's 60 lbs overweight and completely out of shape say that to me - she went on to explain that she'd chosen dressage as her sport because age doesn't matter. I'd like to be supportive (she's a nice lady), but somehow we have to find some reality here...that way she can identify attainable goals and we can all be happy.

The only time I really get angry with students is if or when they are abusive with their horses. I have been known to really yell then, and I'm sure it would happen again under those kinds of circumstances. Certainly an explanation is in order, on both sides, but there are behaviours which are simply intolerable - I number among them coaches who are patronizing and nasty! I have been known to take my horse and walk out of the occasional lesson with clinicians who suffer from Napoleonic complexes, and I have counselled others to do the same. Paying someone for their opinion and assistance does not give them carte blanche to make personal remarks, harass a student, glorify themselves or others at a student's expense, or castigate students publicly or loudly.

That said, I have on rare occasions had students weep in their lessons (sometimes with joy), usually due to their own frustration with their perception of their progress or abilities. We all run into students who are classic Type "A" personalities (my daughter is one) who cannot recognize their achievements and who continually negate their progress, often verbally. I really try to give those students measurable and quantifiable goals, so that when we have the "I'm stupid and just don't get it" discussion I can point out every milestone and achievement, and help them to realize what they've truly accomplished. I had one student dissolve in tears after winning a Provincial championship because she didn't feel she'd really earned it and she'd somehow let down herself, her horse, her parents, and me as her coach!

I learned a lot from that experience, and now I give my students "homework" with specific short-term and long-term goals, so that they can measure themselves against internal yardsticks, and are less vulnerable to nasty clinicians etc.

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Permalink Reply by Geoffrey Pannell on March 12, 2009 at 5:24pm

Hi Elaine , Do you really think that there is any justification for anger in training ? I do agree with everything else in your letter , but I think it's a slippery slope if as coaches we suggest , or imply ,that anger can be justifyed. Cheers Geoffrey

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Permalink Reply by Clara on March 20, 2009 at 6:37pm

We used to have a lady coaching at our barn who would make all the students ball, I remember one time she was yelling at this girl whose parents just force her into riding, they expect her to be an olympic rider, and her horse to be a grand prix hors. The coach said " Get your fat A$$ in gear and start riding your horse, your sitting there doing NOTHING, stop being a huge sack of potatoes" I felt so bad for the girl. I reffused to ride when she was in there.

I have not personally had a coach like that, I've always had the ones that explain in every way possible if I don't understand what they are trying to get at. But i don't think I would ever have a coach that was rude and yelling at me, would just make me mad and not want to ride. As Elaine said "If the student has not learned, the teacher has not taught" that is so true!

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Permalink Reply by Laura on March 12, 2009 at 9:30am

My coach can be that way. Infact, in my last lesson with her she actually told me that if I "didn't get over my nerves with my horse - I would ruin him, and therefore should sell him now or get over it". He then sustained an injury and we havent had a lesson since. But I can assure you that hearing that statement DID NOT make it easier to relax with my horse. If anything, that just made MORE pressure.
She's an excellent coach, but she can sometimes lack that gentle "its ok, try again" attitude. But then again, perhaps she knows me better then I do and gets frustrated with me because I think I cant do something, when she knows I can. Anyways, that "hard" coaching is definately still out there. However, for me at least, I'm looking for a coach now that is going to build my confidence with slow, gradual progressions instead of brute force. Perhaps one day I'll go back to that coach but right now Im happy building my confidence in myself, and my horse, at my own pace - without pressure.

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Permalink Reply by Rachel on March 12, 2009 at 10:15am

Great Topic yes how do parents deal with it. I dealt with it by saying " its not meant to be easy" now where did that come from. Maybe Parents are too scared to speak out for fear of being confronted. I had it also done to me once by a frightening Army Task Master and i tell you it wasnt fun infact it played on my mind for years it was such a patronization being singled out infront of a group and confronted like boot camp. Made to feel squashed under there boots did i say boot camp? It was a nightmare. Injustice, when its your child, i think it would be good to just show empathy, stand there protecting them like a shield of Armor lol As you said there is no point saying anything as the answer will be well rehearsed. Its easier to be silent and say nothing What do you suggest parents in these situations should do Geoffrey

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Permalink Reply by Geoffrey Pannell on March 12, 2009 at 6:47pm

I think knowledge is the key Rachel. Arm yourself with as much knowledge as you can , read as much as you can. There are some great books to educate yourself with , a book will never belittle you! Take that acorn of knowledge and let it grow into a great oak . By arming yourself thus ,you have some ammunition to stand up to the bully, because that's what these people are, bully's. We all know the damage bullying does in school , its no different in a riding class. Educationally it does not work !! The second bullying starts learning goes out the window. I think the way to deal with it is to remove your child from the bully, if we leave them in the class we are condoning those methods, and they will continue to use them. Cheers Geoffrey. P.S. It would be good to here from others who have had a similar experience to Rachel's and how they have dealt with it.

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Permalink Reply by Geoffrey Pannell on March 12, 2009 at 7:00pm

Hi Rachel, I'm glad you have brought this up. This type of instruction started with the military , and that's were it should have stayed!! There is no place at all for this kind of behaviour in coaching. Some times you are going to get tears in your pupils, simply because they may be frightened, or frustrated because they are trying so so hard to do what the coach wants, BUT NEVER should the coach be patronizing or mean,or trying to make you angry. Rarely do angry riders produce good results, no that's not write, NEVER DO ANGRY RIDERS GET GOOD RESULTS!!! As a coach I have had pupils in tears, but when this happens you must stop and find out why, console the pupil ,give some words of encouragement and rebuild the confidence ,not belittle them. Being a good coach is about observation, and not just in the horse's responses but how the rider is travelling also. Unfortunately there are still a few old fossils , well past there use by date, that resort to this type of coaching. The thing is they don't do it with every pupil , something clicks in their fossilised brain cells and the crabby britches kicks in. There seems to be no rhyme or reason, they just pick someone out that day to be the whipping boy\girl. What can you do . Well the best thing to do is go and get your child and remove them from the class. Not much point in saying much to the coach, as they will have a well rehearsed response to justify their method . Be polite but firm and leave , never to return!!! Cheers Geoffery

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Permalink Reply by Lucy on March 12, 2009 at 8:25pm

Thankfully I have never had a trainer like you describe. Both coaches I have had took a calm approach to coaching. If I really don't understand something my current one will explain it best as she can in a different way and then if I still don't get it she will demonstrate which I find helpful. I did however witness a coach screaming at a young child and telling them off and I felt horrible for the child. I think I would have been in tears if that happened to me and I think it is very wrong to do. I don't understand how someone can properly learn when they are being treated like that.

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Permalink Reply by Rachel on March 13, 2009 at 1:18am

As a parent of a Child getting lessons, or getting lessons ourselves, how would coaches like to be approached if we dont agree with the coaches methods?

What is the appropriate way to approach a "Coach" when in disagreement with them. eg youve had it up to here and enough is enough!!! What are we to do please help?

What do we do when WE as the students or Parents have a problem with the coaches methods!

I would like all the hard liner Army Sargent Coaches on Barnmice to tell us why your methods of teaching are your method. What is the method behind the madness?

i agree yes the YELLING is ok cause its about hearing clearly, yelling out is fine, its "WHAT IS SAID AND IN WHAT MANNER" Having a good relationship with your coach is not about yelling cause you need to hear your instruction from your great coach. If you cant hear them how can they help you when your a long way away at times. Again its what is said! i just want to make that clear as i may of given the wrong impression in this discussion.

thanks Rachel

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