Rewards and Dopamine; what happends when we clicker train?

I just uploaded a video clip to show it to you here.

This clip is an excerpt from Dr. Robert Sapolsky's (one of my gurus;) )
speech about the "Uniqueness of humans". In this segment he is talking about studies made on how dopamine levels are affected when we use rewards in clicker training. The result might be surprising to some :) I think this is very relevant to those who uses clicker training, and it is also important to realize that clicker training is less about food than one might think.

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Ellen Ofstad on October 11, 2010 at 3:18pm

A:
I will pass on the great compliments!
She's actually 71 now that I think about it, but she is young in both body and spirit so I kind of forget her age.

And B:
We were jealous of ourselves, too ;)

Permalink Reply by Cyndi on October 13, 2010 at 2:08pm

What great pics!!

Permalink Reply by Ellen Ofstad on October 11, 2010 at 9:06am

I found a clip that shows clicker training using the word "click" instead of a clicker. It's not horses, but the same principle applies

Permalink Reply by Megan Hammock on October 11, 2010 at 11:51am

Oh wow, that was pretty neat.. Similar to what Donoma taught me when I was giving her apples. Haha:)
How are camels in comparison to horses, intelligence-wise?
Moooooore camels.. Mooooooore camels!

Permalink Reply by Ellen Ofstad on October 11, 2010 at 12:39pm

I am afraid that while we have trained the camels some more, we didn't film it due to the weather…
The camels are quite similar to horses in intelligence, but in a different way. A camel has a lot better self preservation than a horse, you can't force them to run to their death like one can with a horse (Unfortunately I have seen this proven in a horrible way). They are therefore not as easy to get to obey, but I am not sure that is a sign of lesser intelligence…

I looked for some other clips of relevance, and found some that you might like. Especially on the topic of intelligence! The smartest animal I have ever worked with was a male gorilla. He was amazing and almost spooky to work with.

What I wanted to show is split up in two clips, the most interesting part is in the second film, but I wanted to show both because of the short sequence of the gorilla in the beginning. The rest of this clip are just showing some of the other monkeys I trained there, but it doesn't show any training details, it's just in the clip for fun.
I will comment about the gorilla under it…

Notice how the gorilla takes the banana very carefully? He was used to being given medicine in bananas and didn't trust me at all. He held it in his mouth for a long time, something I haven't seen any other animal do. They either take it and eat it, or they won't go near it in the first place. He was torn; wanted the banana, but didn't trust us, so he kept staring at our faces to try to figure out what we were up to.

After a while he took it into his mouth… tasted it carefully and then swallowed it, all the while staring at both me and the person with the camera.

After this first bite he had decided that we weren't trying to medicate him, but he was still wondering what we wanted. This is the very first clicker session he ever had. The zoo keeper had been instructed to take him down to the cage, feed him a banana and then let him go right away for some days. After about a week of this he would accept being in the cage for about 2-4 minutes and the clicker training was supposed to start, but she couldn't get him to do anything.

That's why I came, to help her get started, and this is our first meeting.
In the next clip I will show the session, but I'll make a separate posting for that clip.

Permalink Reply by Megan Hammock on October 11, 2010 at 2:16pm

Do you ever NOT have fun doing what you do?? That is so awesome!

That is pretty keen of the gorilla.. That'll be cool to see the second part.

I had heard that some people chose to ride horses in the dessert because camels knew when to say "No, no more. I'm done." and horses would run themselves to death for their "master".. That is really sad. I'm sorry you had to see that.. :(

I definitely don't think that means the camels are dumb.. Maybe smarter in a sense, not that horses are dumber--Just more willing and eager to please. Camels don't seem to have the "YAY A HUMAN!" thing down so much. Haha:) Not that I know much about them, but it was fun seeing and hearing about their difference.. MAN that would be fun to be able to train and work with them all....

Permalink Reply by Ellen Ofstad on October 11, 2010 at 1:59pm

This clip show the rest of the gorilla training.
He had just swallowed the banana bit and now it was a matter of getting him to do something.
I had a little stick that I put in between the bars right next to his head, and when he looked at it (I figured he kind of had to do that) I clicked him and he got a banana.
I did it again, he reached for the stick, and got another click and a banana….
(notice I use a tongue click with him)

The third time I stuck the stick in, he grabbed it and took it away from me. Another click, another banana. The next click was for him moving his hand toward the stick (I am now trying to get him to give it back to me), and from this moment on the film is showing what happens.

(I am speaking in Swedish and just giving instructions about what I am doing to the zoo keeper, it was her job to continue the training). Comments to the clip under it…

Keep in mind that this is the first session! He is trying to figure out how to get the click after only a couple of minutes, the complete session lasting for less then 5 minutes total.

Right before the two minute mark he quits trying a little, so I just wait for something little to end on a good note, and pay attention to the details that follows…

2.31 - he touches the stick. I had already decided to give him the rest of the bananas for the next thing and end the session

2.35 - I give him the rest of the bananas - he doesn't take them…? I got a bit puzzled by it and thought I had really overdone it for him the first time…

2.44 - he starts eating them slowly (other animals would just jump right in unless they were overwhelmed, but this guy did something different… !) He eats them one by one, quite slowly like he is thinking… and then…

2.58 - he had figured it out! he gives me the stick! the very thing I had tried to get him to do. I really think he did it on purpose after a little thought. I was totally taken by surprise and was slow to click. Thankfully I had a little piece of banana left to give him.

Then we let him go, and even though it seems like he goes after me in the end he is just using the bars to turn fast to hurry back to his herd. He has been away from his herd a lot longer than what he is used to, so this is more stress full to him than one might think. Despite that, imagine figuring out both the clicker and the task this fast!

Just for the record; he doesn't live in this cage!
This is only holding pens for things like vet checks, and we could only do this for a few minutes at a time. They are not tame animals, but will have a better life if not stressed out by the presence of humans near them. The rest of the time he lives with his heard, he is the silverback male and even has a kid there - one of the few gorillas in capture that has bred. The purpose of them being in the zoo is to preserve this animals and hopefully save them from distinction.

The training goal is not to tame them, it is to make it possible for a vet to do health checks without having to use drugs which are very tough on the animals. I was truly amazed at how much consideration was given the animals by all the staff and the directors, and I have a whole new appreciation for the work they do at this zoo. Having said that, not all zoos are as good as this one.)

Permalink Reply by Megan Hammock on October 11, 2010 at 2:29pm

That was incredible!! It was funny how quickly he passed you the stick that last time--maybe the "OH, that's what you mean!" moment for him.. It did seem like he started putting the pieces together really quickly though.. I'm just impressed!

He's a beautiful boy.. he looked a lot less stressed and afraid than other captive gorillas I've seen near humans. I'd think that's a pretty good testament to that zoo, too ;)

On another note, Swedish is such a pretty language.. I tried to learn it once.. Didn't get very far...

Permalink Reply by Jennifer Lamm on October 12, 2010 at 6:59pm

amazing work you do....... my Oliver seems like a camel..... lol... he does not run away... yet, for food he seems very very intelligent and understands... maybe because he was orphaned and raised by humans he has less horse characteristics.. anyway, your training is so fascinating...... thank you for sharing.

Permalink Reply by Marlene Thoms on September 30, 2010 at 12:18pm

The best demonstrations I have seen of dopamine/reward at work is when training German Shepherds for tracking and protection. Treats are not even necessary and they are far more motivated by play, and you can get amazing things from them with it. They will work for a game of ball, or the thrill of arresting a bad guy, it's all play to them. I can get my Sharif to work for treats, but I am want to get him to play. I am reading Kempfling's latest book which jives best with what I know about motivating dogs. Probably dopamine is involved in play as well.

Permalink Reply by Sarah Siler on September 30, 2010 at 1:23pm

I taught Star, years and years ago, to bob her head for a piece of carrot. It only took 10 minutes for her to catch on...so I'm thinking her dopamine flows REALLY well, lol. On the other hand, I recently started teaching Rip the same thing, it took three DAYS and a sequential way of training to get him to bob his head for a piece of carrot. He does it now, not near as well as Star, but I'm thinking his dopamine levels aren't near as high as what Star's were/are...or is it just a difference in learning skills between the two? Also, I'm wondering what the differences are between dopamine and endorphins...which are said to be released in the cribbing action/habit. Rip is a recovering cribber, he hasn't cribbed in a very long time, the last time was about four weeks ago, way before I started teaching him the head bob for a carrot thing. Just wondering.

Permalink Reply by Marlene Thoms on September 30, 2010 at 1:26pm

Sorry, typo, that's Klaus Hempfling.