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Comment by Gail Morse on May 23, 2011 at 10:54am

Hi Jackie!  Thanks for the feedback!  I have to take some of the blame! The summer here last year was hot and humid and I can't breathe in it well. I had a half boarder who rode so I figured that would work out.  I was not over much so that is where I take responsibility.  He put on 130 lbs in 4 months.  The 2 front feet were involved .  I believe the chiro fixed a lot of things in that one visit.  I understand also that lamintic horses get up from a recumbent position in a different than ones that are not laminitic.  More answers.  I love to learn!  He and I can now move forward together.

Interesting note!  My saddler knows the woman who started Barnmice and I bet he works on her  horse or horses!

I guess there are different ways to measure respect.  What the horse knows is that he was fine and looked after when I was around and never put him in a situation where he got hurt. ie water crossings, hills. I am so glad to be a part of this group also.  I have had more feedback from it than any other sources.

I had it brought back to me with this episode that you will have the best outcome if you can surround yourself with professionals who know their job.  I will keep in touch .

Comment by Jackie Cochran on May 23, 2011 at 10:31am

Oh, another thing.  I am really glad you asked us about this because at first you were considering this partially as a respect issue.  Horses do not understand the concept of respect.  There is mainly the NOW and how the horse feels NOW, and if you think there is a lack of respect go and look for pain, because most of these cases arise from either pain or confusion.

Bless you Gail.  You listened to your horse and when you did not understand you asked for a translation.  I wish more horse owners would do so.  You are a brave lady and I am glad to be part of your group!

Comment by Jackie Cochran on May 23, 2011 at 10:24am

I am not surprised about what your chiro found.  Laminitis is so painful that horses literally twist their whole bodies in a desperate attempt to avoid putting any more weight on the bad feet.

It used to be (I hope) a fashion to grossly fatten up Arab halter horses.  I would go to a big farm, see their stallion painfully hobbling on their foundered feet, and swear that I would NEVER fatten up my horses.  I hate founder, and I hate even more that these horses were then required to hobble for years in agony.

I am not blaming you Gail, founder can come from many directions, not just overfeeding.  Since your guy just got it in one foot though I can really see him twisting himself even more than is normal with founder.  I am so glad that you went after more information about your problem, because you did you and your guy may have many more years of pain free life.

Good for you!

Comment by Gail Morse on May 23, 2011 at 10:03am

I wanted to thank everyone in this group for the support for Pekoe and I while we worked through what his problem was.  I had a chiro out Friday and she found 3 ribs out on one side and the same on the other side.  Locked ankles, sore withers and neck and his back end also involved in the pain. 

Notes were left for the farrier and he did his magic Sunday and we are back to be able to do walk trot.  Whatever the horse offers within reason.  Pain was the reason for the bucking.  As I said, thanks to all!   This old fart group rocks!

Comment by Gail Morse on May 16, 2011 at 10:06am

My coach and I talked this morning via email and we both feel we offered him too much to soon!  It seemed like he could handle it but now I think he is saying we allowed too much!  We will start again.  I guess you saw the posting about the saddler who is also a farrier and he said the saddle could be sliding to the right as a result of his right foot being the worst one. More info after the saddler`s visit Tuesday.

Comment by Jackie Cochran on May 16, 2011 at 9:22am

I'm sorry it is so hard and scary.  I remember!!!!

Take comfort that you have access to modern vets!  Laminitis used to be a total crippler of horses.  There have been so many effective veterinary and farriery advances that improve the prognosis.  Just 49 years ago one of the main recommended treatments for founder (as it was called back then) was standing the horse in a cold, running stream.  The main treatment before them was bleeding.

When I started working with the spavined mare I ride, she was so weak that once a week I had my son walk her, 30 minutes, at first the mare set the speed and there were plenty of halts and standing.  After a few sessions we started speeding up the walk.  Then we put on the saddle an led her doing two speeds at a walk and resting her occasionally--mostly to teach her to stand.  Then I rode her 30 minutes once a week, mostly at a walk and slow trot.  She improved in mobility and strength in spite us working with her only an hour a week (in two 30 minute sessions.)

Since you are dealing with laminitis you are dealing with a different type of pain.  Laminitis is described as "exquisitly painful".  I would definitely ask your horse if he can handle someone riding him before anyone climbs up into the saddle, but just leading him around with the saddle on, when he tells you he can stand it, gives his back a little "weight" training.

It sounds like the laminitis is in the right front hoof?  In this case the left front hoof is under a LOT of extra stress.  Once I had a horse with a green-stick fracture in his elbow, it was as much work to keep the sound leg going as to get the broken leg working again.  It was a big triumph when I could finally clean out his sound hoof!

May all go well and modern medicine cure your horse. 

 

Comment by Gail Morse on May 16, 2011 at 8:53am

I have a saddler coming Tuesday to refit the saddle.  He also does some farrier work and said last night  on the phone that the saddle could be slipping to the right as that was the foot that was most involved with the laminitis problem.  Interesting thought!

 

I am starting with a new doctor the end of this month.  I guess I will just have to bite the bullet so so speak.  I guess Jello and a few things like that are allowed.  Scared of what they might find.  Somtimes I would rather not know about things!  Waiting is a nasty piece of work for me.  I know how that goes!  Back later. I do the sales for a regional farm paper and drop them off to some of the advertisers.

 

 

Comment by Cindy Jeffery on May 16, 2011 at 1:54am

Thanks Jackie for reminding me about homeopathics, I had forgotten about them.  Very timely with your advice because I was thinking today if there was anything.  I will give the Hawthorn Berry a try. 

Gail I have had a colonoscopy before, 3 years ago in fact and am due for another.  The last one wasn't too bad, just the waiting bothered me.  I'm not good at waiting and I find as I get older I'm getting worse it's something I really have to work at.  Each day now I'm trying to build in a time where I need to slow down and wait for something and find ways to enjoy it.  Today I fell asleep in the shade listening to the birds chatter, don't know how well that applies to waiting, but I need extra sleep since I only got 4 hours the night before so a little catch up was necessary.  Anyway, fortunately I don't have a low blood sugar problem, at least as far as I know right this moment, the blood tests could prove something different.  Besides, fasting for colonoscopy isn't too difficult and there are ways I'm sure that have been developed for folks with low blood sugar.  When I fast I get to have ginger ale, which I really enjoy, helps to dull the hunger pangs.

Comment by Gail Morse on May 14, 2011 at 8:54pm

I am into the basics of dressage with a lot of trail riding thrown in!  He and I have done some really small jumps and led a lot of pairs of horses and riders through getting started on the way to hack their horses safely and happily.  I still get the odd email or phone message from individuals reminding what  Pekoe and I have offered them for training from several years back.

 

As far as riding another horse, I don't really have the chance and am not sure I would be comfortable doing that.  I bought a quarter horse when mine was thought to be off for a year and my nerve was not good on him.  I feel like I have lost my edge.  I will go ahead and do the ground work but will pay a  lot more time listening to what the horse has to say to me.  Having emailed with you, I am pretty sure I have rushed him along too fast and not heard what he had to say.  I have found this forum and your feedback very valuable!

Comment by Jackie Cochran on May 14, 2011 at 8:14pm

Hi again Gail.  I ride English, specifically Forward Seat, a variety of hunt seat (modern hunt seat came from Forward Seat.)  I live in NC.

Ground work?  I've never done stuff ala Parelli--it is just too dangerous for me, some of the games.  What I did on the ground was basic halter training, lungeing and ground driving.  I do not have the pysical balance to do the on the ground work of the dressage masters.  I had an absolutely wonderful relationship with my first horse without any ground games, I could go out in the 50 acre pasture without any halter,lead rope, etc., just go up and touch him and tell him to come on and he would walk with me, through 2 gates, stand for grooming, saddling, and I would finally bridle him, the first piece of head gear I'd put on him.  No halter etc., it was great!  This was 40 years ago, looong before NH!  I've kept my horses barefoot most of the time, I started riding bitless 38 years ago (Jumping cavesson bridle), and did a lot of bareback riding before my MS made my balance too bad.  I still like riding with a bit when my hands are good enough, the horses always tell me when my hands get too bad to ride in a bit then it is back to bitless.  I don't ride bareback any more, my balance is bad and it is too dangerous for me.

I have been riding a spavined now 30 year old Arab mare for the past 2 years, and that has taught me a lot about the limitations of a horse in pain!  We found a supplement that helps her lameness alot, but as an old Arab mare she is super opinionated and does not hesitate to tell me when I do wrong.

I have a lot of blogs here on Barnmice if you'd like to read them.  Some are on theory and books I've read, but most are just about me riding other people's horses, mostly Mia, the 30 year old, and Cider.

Working with a horse in pain can require a lot of negotiation.  Listen to your horse.

See if you can get some lessons or riding on another horse, preferably a gentle well trained one while all this stuff is working out with your horse.  Get your confidence back.  Riding an unsound horse is not the easiest thing, they move differently and can feel very unstable beneath you.  You probably won't feel secure on your horse for a while, partially because of the lame movement and partly because your horse may not feel secure walking with weight on his back and you pick it up.  In fact I think you pick up more things from you horse than you think you do.  It took a while for me to learn to listen to my horse over everybody else, but my first horse was patient with me until I learned to be a civilized horseperson.  I don't remember how many teachers I dropped because they were trying to make me make my wonderful horse miserable.

What is your riding discipline? 

 

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