The equestrian community for horse people everywhere
Personal space and respect
I don't believe that the horse being in "our space" has to be a sign of disrespect. First of all, it depends on what the horse has been taught; if we haven't told it that this is something we don't want, then how is it a sign of disrespect? Second off all; if we HAVE told it that we don't want it close, why do we have to look at it as disrespect? Why not use the word disobedient? And, why not take a closer look at WHY before we start making assumptions. I think the word respect and disrespect are overused and kind of hard to understand.
When I handle young horses as well as older, but insecure animals, they often try to get very close. They seem to want my support and help, and in my view that is far from disrespectful. Sometimes, if it's a big horse that is showing stress in a way that makes me think it is likely to jump in the air at any moment, I will get it to move away from me.
I don't do that with a light heart; I can see that I am pushing it away when it needs my support, but I do it to make sure I don't get hurt. Not that I think it would want to hurt me, but in that state of mind, when it is stressed by it's surroundings, it can easily happen that it gets spooked and can run me down unintentionally. If I am knocked down I won't be much good to the horse, so I get it to move away from me so I can try to help it with a distance between us until it has calmed down a little.
By doing that I make it even harder for the horse and it takes a bit longer for me to help it, but I also need to feel safe in order to be able to give the horse the reassurance that it needs.
As soon as I feel that the horse isn't explosive I will let it be very close to me, and from that position I can help it feel like it's OK.
I can see NO disrespect in a horse acting this way; the horse is doing the same thing a youngster does with it's mother. Notice how a horse often will get very close to the other horses when feeling upset! If a horse does that with me, I think of it as a good thing rather than a bad thing; the horse is showing me that it want's my support.
There is a lot of talk about us being the leader. What is the role of the leader if not this: someone they can turn to for support when they are feeling upset and insecure?
O'boy, I think I just entered another aspect of these body language signals, and this is a bit of a can of worms I'm afraid; the issue of leadership! :) I will get into that soon, it really is related to the calming signals in a way, but that will be in a separate posting :)
When I handle young horses as well as older, but insecure animals, they often try to get very close. They seem to want my support and help, and in my view that is far from disrespectful. Sometimes, if it's a big horse that is showing stress in a way that makes me think it is likely to jump in the air at any moment, I will get it to move away from me.
I don't do that with a light heart; I can see that I am pushing it away when it needs my support, but I do it to make sure I don't get hurt. Not that I think it would want to hurt me, but in that state of mind, when it is stressed by it's surroundings, it can easily happen that it gets spooked and can run me down unintentionally. If I am knocked down I won't be much good to the horse, so I get it to move away from me so I can try to help it with a distance between us until it has calmed down a little.
By doing that I make it even harder for the horse and it takes a bit longer for me to help it, but I also need to feel safe in order to be able to give the horse the reassurance that it needs.
As soon as I feel that the horse isn't explosive I will let it be very close to me, and from that position I can help it feel like it's OK.
I can see NO disrespect in a horse acting this way; the horse is doing the same thing a youngster does with it's mother. Notice how a horse often will get very close to the other horses when feeling upset! If a horse does that with me, I think of it as a good thing rather than a bad thing; the horse is showing me that it want's my support.
There is a lot of talk about us being the leader. What is the role of the leader if not this: someone they can turn to for support when they are feeling upset and insecure?
O'boy, I think I just entered another aspect of these body language signals, and this is a bit of a can of worms I'm afraid; the issue of leadership! :) I will get into that soon, it really is related to the calming signals in a way, but that will be in a separate posting :)
Views: 434
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by Shirley on
-
You must have your horses at home. Not an option for me but I do get to spend several hours each day at the barn year round.
I actually think that working with cattle and reining would be a lot of fun in the future. Hoping the tension will release at some point so we can have more fun together/.
Patience, patience, Patience!!!!! and add in a bit of courage to keep doing what scares me. I've had a couple pretty good falls and unfortunately it stays with me. Maybe to some extent that is a good thing~~hopefully when Cash and I are both ready the fear will dissolve. -
-
Permalink Reply by Sarah Siler on
-
Oh girl, I can relate to the falls and needing to get that courage and confidence back. Fear not, you and Cash will get there. Yes I have my two at home, I boarded for years when I just had Star, so I know all about the 'boarding scene', lol. There are lots of good things about boarding, as there are with keeping horses at home...both have their down sides too.
-
-
Permalink Reply by Jennifer Lamm on
-
the only time he's jacked up is when my trainer is here and that is because his job is to exercise the horse.... but because oliver is a fighter horse, he will pull alot of stuff, I'm glad I'm not in charge of getting him going yet until I have alot more skill... .... oliver is a very lazy horse otherwise.... you have got to MAKE him go...... thankfully my trainer does believe in the reward is in the relase, not that you have to whack a horse...... but he does believe that I have to show Oliver that I will if I have to get my point across and I have another horse that if you ever even touch him with a whip he'll go hide in a corner..... Oliver is not like that. he is a horse with a strong FIGHT instinct and zero flight.... seriously... right now, I am working on SENDING, not coming over......and every time he trots off he spins his head in protest.... he prefers to be right there on top of you controlling the situation... and that is totally my fault because I allowed it..... he doesn't bother me, but remember, I am a student not a teacher so I am paying attention to the teacher.
-
-
-
To Jennifer: While I can understand, somewhat, a little of what your trainer was saying...I'm not sure I completely agree with his methods. Oliver just isn't at a place yet to handle the high/aggressive energy. Oliver does need to learn, and this is just my opinion, how to handle a higher degree, even more aggressive type, of energy going on around him, without getting aggressive. Because as you said, if your riding along and someone comes up that is rude/full of energy, etc. and you start to get a little energy flowing back...which can happen...been there/done that...Oliver needs to be able to handle it/know it's not directed at him. Believe me when I say that can happen but will take some time, my mare was quite a bit like that when we first started out, because she'd been exposed to nothing BUT high/aggressive energy. Low energy was what got her to trust me, then I got her to accept higher energy in VERY small increments and it took a while, she will still sometimes 'key' off higher energy that isn't being put out there by me, her reactions to it just aren't as 'jacked up' as they once were. She tends now to look to me as a...let's say protector, when high energy situtations arise. When someone was around that was a high energy person or was starting to put aggressive energy out there, directed at me. I watched her for signs she was about to get jacked up and removed her from those situtations BEFORE she got to the point she was 'over the brink'. Then if I needed to go back into that situation to finish handling the 'situation', I went without her...sort of like not getting into an argument in front of the kids. If I couldn't remove her, like out on the trail riding with a group, I would just ride away, with a "Sorry I have to go." My safety and the safety of my horse are the #1 priority. Oliver can learn how to handle high energy, it's just going to take time and consistency on your part. JMO, of course.
-
-
-
Oh you guys, thanks for your comments.... I would love to hear what maybe exercises you might have done Sarah to get your mare more used to higher energy..... right now, if I went on a trailride Oliver would chase everyone away.. .that's why I don't leave my backyard yet and why I see what it takes to keep his attention on me... ..... he is really not safe around strangers... it's embarrassing to admit, but I'm afraid he would be deemed "dangerous" and when you see him with low energy he is not..... anyway, I'd love to see what you might be able to give us as exercises...... my trainer has trained him since he was 8 weeks old.... he is an experiment in an orphan horse for both of us... so we might have made mistakes, but both of us are trying to see what needs to be done to keep him safe around others.... my communicator that came and talked to him said to basically forget it... he's not going to let other people around me and needs a red flag on his tail... Steve is not convinced.... he does take him over to barns and socializes him for me with other people.... and tries to get oliver more out in the public.... but when I am with Oliver oh geez, he's chasing people away.... on the other side of it though, one pretty good correction and he backs right down... so again, I have to practice energy and keeping myself focused and calm when he gets jacked up..... geez, it's kind of neverending huh????? thank you so much for your help.. what do you think I can try next that you did that worked for you and your mare? I just took in a boarder and I have been practicing having Oliver around her horses and her..... and not at all letting him be the boss..... but other people don't help.... for some reason they get scared of him and he takes that all the way to the bank..... that is another whole story that I'm not ready to get into yet because it is frightening the reactions that people have to the conversation like, "that is a horse I would have euthanized"..... :( Oliver is a total experiment in orphan wild mustangs..... I agree most of the time with Steve's theories..... but my problem is, there is now way I will ever be Steve.... short of giving my horse to him, which I've tried to do in the past, because I was so afraid that I was wrong for Oliver..... I've resorted to trying to see if my energy can be useful to him..... I think I'm trying to see if gentling and whispering works... I think both Steve and I together are good for Oliver..... thank God for Steve.... he is just so good...... but he's like a daddy... sterner than me... for sure. and I think when he worries about my safety since we are such good friends, he goes right into protection mode.... so we just keep working on it together.. he shows me what works for him and I show him what works for me and Oliver keeps telling us when we are right or wrong... we have a saying, "that's just Oliver"... because honestly, he's a little "different"...
-
-
-
You could try desensitizing Oliver as far as energy goes by asking him to do something he really can succeed at with your energy low, your usual low energy. Then raise your energy just a bit, a very little bit, and ask him to do the same thing he just succeeded at doing. If he doesn't obey, do as Shirley said she did, show him what you want, with your energy still at the slightly higher level. When he succeeds with your energy slightly higher, lower your energy, praise him and call it good for the day as far as a 'lesson' is concerned, maybe give him a nice grooming if that's something he really enjoys. Next time, same thing, start with energy low, ask him for something he succeeds consistently at, the same thing as before is a good idea. Raise your energy just a little bit, to the same place as before, ask him, correct him by showing him what you want if need be. Once you get the right answer, then praise him with your energy still at that slightly higher level, lower your energy, praise him again and call it good for the day, go groom or whatever he really likes. Notice that you are keeping your energy at the slightly higher level this time than the last time, so he understands that higher energy isn't always a bad thing. When you get success at the higher level of energy for at least a week, raise your level a very little bit and start again. This will not be an overnight fix, you'll need to work on yourself as much as Oliver. You might get your clicker involved in this too since he already understands that as a release. It sounds to me like he's always associating high energy as a 'bad' thing...you just need to assure him it's not always a bad thing. You and Steve might need to sit down and decide how much energy you two are going to allow to flow between you BEFORE you bring Oliver into the mix. Set a level for Oliver, so that when you, or Steve, sees he's about to get to 'that unhappy place', things can be called to a halt, remember you want VERY small increments of raised energy to give Oliver a chance to learn to deal with them.
-
-
-
Thank you Sarah for caring enough to help.... :) I will, I will try it.... ugh, it seems so confusing and difficult right now but I promise I will try... might not be able to report for a few weeks on this one but I do love assignments and I do do my homework...
-
-
-
I've found that when dealing with a horse, with the background Olive has, it's probably always going to be a challenge. And I really wouldn't expect, if I were you, that there would be anything to report for at least a few weeks...heck it might take that long working with just the one little higher level of energy, to have some sort of a 'break thru'. I've been told that orphaned foals raised by humans become too 'humanized' and thus are more trouble than they are worth. Rip was orphaned at 4 months of age, raised by humans from that point and then, because of an accident as a yearling, humans played an even greater part in his upbringing but not, IMO, a real good way, spoiling to be exact. We bought him as a three y/o, he didn't even know how to lead, so I'm guessing from about 1 1/2 y/o till three he had little to no human contact expect at feeding time. Then, as in present time/as a 10 y/o, he has a change of handler/rider, from pretty much one extreme to the other as far as differences in handling styles go. I've found him, as I've found most horses, to be very adaptable, when given the chance to adapt and shown with a calm attitude what is wanted from them. I should say here that there was as much work to be done on me as there was Rip. If I were you, I really would sit down with Steve and, as friends would, discuss this thing, with helping Oliver be a success as a calm riding companion as the goal. As a trainer, Steve might be able to clear up any thing I've said that is confusing to you. It's desensitizing Oliver to high energy with the 'advance/retreat' method, not you advancing and retreating, or Oliver advancing and retreating...but the energy advancing (again in very small increments) and retreating...hope I haven't confused you even more.
-
-
-
Sarah, wow, Rip was orphaned??? more trouble than they are worth.. heard that like a million times... I think I wrote something a mintue ago before I realized that you wrote this..... wow, I'm enthused to learn more about your horse..... but yes, I'll be back outside learning from my horse now that you guys gave me an assignment..... I'm practicing energy work right now so what I've done is practice a trot to a whoa..... for now.... and in my videos I think you can see me trying to increase his level without increasing his adrenaline... I hope that makes sense.... thanks for your input.... on a side note.. my horse has had almost daily work by humans since he was every young.... and not all of it nice and certainly not spoiled.... this almost harsh upbringing, not in physical beatings god forbid, but just in not spoiling him..... or giving him lots of love might have been a little too extreme... and he is very gentle...... but he doesn't like other people around me.. oh god, it's so complicated my friend, LOL... just like this thread is getting, LOL.
-
-
-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtNz2PU1Vu4
when I was learning about my horses I learned alot from Toby about seeing that Oliver pretty much quits if he gets a good push to the outside.... these are my very first experiments in trying to be brave enough to work with them together and manage the juvenile horse..... what do you think is going on here? -
-
-
Not sure what is going on. Again it's just my opinion, maybe put working with both horses together off for a little while...again JMO.
-
-
-
I do lots of different things... together, separate, lol.. I work a few hours a day with them.
-
The Rider Marketplace
International Horse News
© 2024 Created by Barnmice Admin.
Powered by
